Karen talks about how the Bible doesn’t just predict the end of the world in Revelations, which was definitely written while someone was chewing poppy flowers. The Old Testament, the gospels–the fear is sprinkled in everywhere.
Growiing up, the end times is what kept many of us horrified. Plus, some of us carried guilt that we didn’t want Jesus to come until we at least experienced high school or prom or got married.
2020 seems like it would be a great year for the rapture. But it ain’t happening. We’re not living in a time that is more special than the scary 60s with wars, nuclear weapons, spies, civil rights violence, and the assassination of a president and MLK.
Don’t get us started on the crusades (Really, don’t. We barely know anything about them) or the witch trials. There are plenty times in history when people clutched their Bibles and live in real fear of the end of the world.
One guy, Harold Camping, thought it was happening on May 21st, 2011.
Pics of Harold predicting. And Harold after the date passed.
Bonnie reads us about Harold and his doomed we’re all doomed day failure. The only thing doomed was the multiple millions of dollars his radio listeners gave towards his nonsense. Tons of people thought the world was going to end. Some even panicked and tried to end their own lives as the date approached.
Rest assured, fair reader, the idea of the world ending is not new. I mean, the whole Noah and the ark fake story probably had all those fake people thinking the same fake thing.
Climate change is real, but it’s mainly the fault of the religious right, not the devil. Or are they the same thing?
Bonnie’s research came from this article: https://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/18/us/harold-camping-radio-entrepreneur-who-predicted-worlds-end-dies-at-92.html
[00:01:00] Karen: [00:01:00] Hey, welcome to deconversion therapy. This is Karen who is showing. A half a symptom of COVID. So it’s going to put herself on oxygen any second. And that is,
[00:01:27] Bonnie: [00:01:27] this is Bonnie.
[00:01:29] Karen: [00:01:29] Oh yeah. She’s just normal. She has no nothing, right. I’m with her. I would
[00:01:35] Bonnie: [00:01:35] never ever say that.
[00:01:37] Karen: [00:01:37] Uh, we are excited to be alive. Uh, this week has been shit, Ruth.
[00:01:45] Bader Ginsburg. God’s speed. Uh, it’s just crazy. Um, but we’re glad we have everyone that’s in the community on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter. Go to deconversion therapy [00:02:00] and find us, see where I was just called the antichrist. That’s right. Move over. Obama. There’s a new unknown. Antichrist and town.
[00:02:14] Bonnie: [00:02:14] Well, they say that they were probably among us.
[00:02:19] Karen: [00:02:19] Well in this person, the antichrist. Yes. Yeah. Um, and this person, uh, scammed my article that I wrote. Um, so
[00:02:33] Bonnie: [00:02:33] yes, cause skimming is so tough.
[00:02:36] Karen: [00:02:36] I thought she was going to say scanned, but you know, it’s hard to know. Annie. Um,
[00:02:43] Bonnie: [00:02:43] it’s always a pleasure when somebody makes a grammatical error after they say something shitty
[00:02:50] Karen: [00:02:50] is I love
[00:02:52] Bonnie: [00:02:52] your, your, your
[00:02:56] Karen: [00:02:56] so yeah, you can find us all those places.
[00:03:00] [00:02:59] And we’re just trying to get through the days we were just talking to the podcast or David Hooper yesterday. He’s really nice. Isn’t he?
[00:03:10] Bonnie: [00:03:10] He’s very nice. And he’s well spoken and he doesn’t use them at all.
[00:03:15] Karen: [00:03:15] Oh yeah. We don’t. Uh, either. So he was saying not only really nice things about us, he was talking to us in podcasts, lingo.
[00:03:30] We had no clue what he was saying. So we appreciate all of you out there who are listening. To us, despite that we don’t really have a plan in place. We haven’t really thought through a lot and we’re not experts on anything.
[00:03:49] Bonnie: [00:03:49] No, we haven’t said in a while, our disclaimer of listen, we don’t want to talk about anything super serious.
[00:03:55] There’s a lot of shit going on in people’s lives, as far as their [00:04:00] deconverted. And I love that people have been so open about it on our Facebook group, which you can ask to join and Karen will let you in or not. Um, but we try to keep it light. Yeah, but we try to also be empathetic to the people who are having garbage go on when they interact with their families who don’t want to let them, you know, stray from Christ.
[00:04:24] Karen: [00:04:24] Yeah. Yeah. So with all the stuff in the news lately, plus a lot of you being locked down in COVID with said family, we are like, let. Even though we’re feeling, um, the onslaught of the unfunny penis, let’s try and hype ourselves up and at least offer people something that relaxes them in some way. Cause anything I listen to now, whether I agree with it or don’t agree with [00:05:00] it, it’s stuff that gets you upset because it’s just the nature of when you know what I mean.
[00:05:06] If anyone is discussing anything it’s yeah, it’s not, um, it’s not that fun.
[00:05:15] Bonnie: [00:05:15] Yup. I mean, it’s little things. Like when I parked to go to the supermarket, I get swollen and I strap on my mask, you know, and I have a whole thing where the only thing I’m touching is my credit card and I had that out and then I sprayed down after, and then I get into this funk afterwards when I get home.
[00:05:38] And it’s just. Wow way to make a normal thing that you do into a, you know, a physically depressing thing.
[00:05:49] Karen: [00:05:49] That’s what I just saw related to that on, um, Twitter among me getting yelled at on there. This is a, an ad that [00:06:00] Disney’s done. Have you seen it? I hope I can find it. I think I
[00:06:04] Bonnie: [00:06:04] retweeted it super earnest.
[00:06:06] Like we’re happy to have you back.
[00:06:09] Karen: [00:06:09] It is showing all these people and it’s only like two people at a time and the frame all beautiful and fun. Yeah. And everyone has a mask on and they’re just like, unjoin the holidays down in Disney. And everyone’s got a mass I’m like, looks ridiculous. It they’re trying to make a spin on something that just looks horrifying.
[00:06:36] And Saifai, but you know, they have all these happy mass that I’m sure cost $35. Once you opened the Gates, once you go through the Gates.
[00:06:47] Bonnie: [00:06:47] So tell, tell the people what we’re talking about. In this episode,
[00:06:54] Karen: [00:06:54] well, we’re, we’re gonna, uh, do our end of summer clearance [00:07:00] sale of the end times. This is probably going to be two episodes and we thought everyone is just going through shit.
[00:07:10] I mean, everyone is feeling just worn, exhausted. And everything else, but I’ve seen quite a few people in our groups or, um, Twitter, you know, community saying, okay. I thought I was fine, fine. D converting out of Christianity. Yeah. If that’s what, some of dunks, we have Christians who listen to, um, but. With all these things going on with the epidemic and Trump and trying to turn this into a church state that they wonder if the Bible is true.
[00:07:50] As far as in times, like there it’s triggering people, it’s triggering people’s, you know, past trauma of being [00:08:00] scared that the world was gonna end any minute. And I think I did talk with someone. About, you know, all these, you know, lame new people who are scared. This is the times never grew up like you and I, who felt that way every day we were told.
[00:08:20] Bonnie: [00:08:20] Yeah. And
[00:08:21] Karen: [00:08:21] when I was running every day,
[00:08:25] Bonnie: [00:08:25] Yeah. When I was doing research on this, I don’t remember much about what’s in revelations
[00:08:32] Karen: [00:08:32] and what the
[00:08:33] Bonnie: [00:08:33] predictors are all about, but I, I found this movie
[00:08:38] Karen: [00:08:38] that was from the eighties
[00:08:40] Bonnie: [00:08:40] and it, and in it, there’s a guy who was one of, I think it was somebody who married one of the Brady girls and the Brady.
[00:08:50] Bunch sequels
[00:08:52] Karen: [00:08:52] that they would stick on
[00:08:53] Bonnie: [00:08:53] the air every couple of years. And, um, I was like, I know I’ve seen this movie. [00:09:00] I don’t want to watch it again.
[00:09:01] Karen: [00:09:01] Right.
[00:09:02] Bonnie: [00:09:02] But I know it would be one of those badly made movies. And of course the people who review it, this is the funny part. They’re like this movie it was made in the fifties or sixties, but it’s still a block
[00:09:14] Karen: [00:09:14] it’s not thief in the night.
[00:09:15] Is it.
[00:09:17] Bonnie: [00:09:17] No, it was like, I’ve got to look it up to be able to find out what it was. Um, But I would like to see it for its shitty production value.
[00:09:26] Karen: [00:09:26] Yeah. Yeah. Um,
[00:09:28] Bonnie: [00:09:28] and honestly, I find this topic very tedious and found myself so distracted when I was doing research. I mean, eventually, like I was Googling the lyrics of that song.
[00:09:41] Oh, Sheila. I remember that because
[00:09:46] Karen: [00:09:46] is good for the Gander. That’s
[00:09:49] Bonnie: [00:09:49] right. And, uh, one of the lyrics and there was like, Oh baby, it’s one, two, three. I love you baby. From a to C. And then
[00:09:58] Karen: [00:09:58] I think it’s a to Z.
[00:10:00] [00:10:00] Bonnie: [00:10:00] Well, I don’t know.
[00:10:02] Karen: [00:10:02] That’s very short love. That’s a three, I
[00:10:06] Bonnie: [00:10:06] think a could stand for ASCE and C could stand for the C you’re next to now.
[00:10:11] Oh boy. I don’t know. But the next
[00:10:15] Karen: [00:10:15] sheet alphabet. Is that
[00:10:19] Bonnie: [00:10:19] I love, maybe
[00:10:21] Karen: [00:10:21] this might that’s our new logo
[00:10:24] Bonnie: [00:10:24] asked to see you next Tuesday. Um, but then the next lyric in that, in the Google lyrics that I found said, I want to D dot DDA li uh, DDA, Leda Lu. Yeah. Does this. So I just liked that they were in the studio and then you’re like, you know what?
[00:10:47] Here, these are going to be our lyrics. Dita, Lita Lu. Yeah. Do it, write it. Yeah. Put it down.
[00:10:56] Karen: [00:10:56] Well, I guess is how revelation was written. [00:11:00] So I see how, what you said. Pertains because
[00:11:05] Bonnie: [00:11:05] does not pertain. I’m just telling you how annoying I felt researching any of this
[00:11:10] Karen: [00:11:10] shit. Well, I think that’s why pastors didn’t spend a lot of time on revelation.
[00:11:18] Like they’d, they’d talk about Jesus returning every second and we’d all be like, let me just get married before then. And I’ll
[00:11:25] Bonnie: [00:11:25] tell you what, because if you were going to die soon, why would you type.
[00:11:31] Karen: [00:11:31] Right. Very true. Or maybe they’d just give it all. No, that doesn’t make sense at all. No.
[00:11:39] Bonnie: [00:11:39] Oh, wait until you hear what happened when one guy said something it’s coming, I’ve
[00:11:44] Karen: [00:11:44] got a story for ya.
[00:11:46] Oh, uh, well the whole idea of this being daunting is because. We all have to cherry pick because it’s not just revelation, which [00:12:00] is definitely someone’s fever dream. It was in the old Testament. It was in some of the gospels, like there’s so many verses here and there that, you know, there there’s really no real.
[00:12:18] This is what it’s going to be like, but we’re picking out the most popular ones just for you. Right. Alright. You want me to go first or you
[00:12:30] Bonnie: [00:12:30] sure, because I’m just going to tell you about this one guy. So tell me a couple of things, and then I’ll tell you about this one guys. Horrible, horrible. Prediction making.
[00:12:42] Karen: [00:12:42] Okay. Um, all right. So the one that we hear the most and, and, you know, it’s, well, it’s like we heard it more often when we were growing up, but it’s the one that there’ll be Wars and rumors of Wars, [00:13:00] violence, and lawlessness. And I remember growing up when we used to hate Russia. Rather than making out with them.
[00:13:09] And that was like, Oh, that’s one of the predictors because supposedly America and Russia and the Bible, according to some loons somewhere. So this is what’s going to be an in time thing. But the whole idea that violence is an indicator of the end times. And we think. Black lives matters, protests and cops and all that is, that is ridiculous because if you think about Adam and Eve who had Cain and Abel and Cain killed Abel or vice versa, don’t care for God.
[00:13:52] That is most of the existing world wiping out the other right there. So why didn’t Jesus return [00:14:00] right there? Yeah, he wasn’t there in the first place, but he didn’t have to be, but
[00:14:05] Bonnie: [00:14:05] there, but there, I mean, just go through the Wars that we had
[00:14:08] Karen: [00:14:08] exactly
[00:14:10] Bonnie: [00:14:10] with, you know, uh, Vietnam, Korea, world war two, world war one.
[00:14:17] And just keep going back
[00:14:19] Karen: [00:14:19] and I’m sure that there were people like in world war one, especially who believed in this and were traumatized all the time. Like here it is the Z end of the world, Jesus is coming, you know, and I know it happens with every war, even again, the rumors of war that people are freaked out with all of it and then violence.
[00:14:44] I mean, So I have a distant relative who I really like. And when I was a fervent Christian, he said to me, yeah, I don’t, you know, [00:15:00] I don’t like Christianity because Christian started all the Wars. And, um, you know, that got my dander up, whatever dander is. And I was just like, that’s so unfair where peace and love, but his ugly, he was right.
[00:15:19] It’s all about religion. And it was just so much with Christianity. Uh, that yeah, if we were going to go on violence, then again, you’ve got, um, the Spanish inquisition and you’ve got just tons of, you know, everything where Jesus could have come back in the end of the world could have happened right then.
[00:15:44] But it didn’t. If
[00:15:47] Bonnie: [00:15:47] you think of this, the list of all the signs that we’re about to talk about. Yeah. It’s pretty much just throwing everything out there. What else is on here that they haven’t put out? Put on this list,
[00:16:00] [00:16:00] Karen: [00:16:00] you know what they haven’t put up on here, cyber attack. If they put cyber attack in the Bible, I would have been like, look, we good predictor.
[00:16:10] He didn’t know what that meant for 1,950 years, but now it makes sense. And how about the assist? Right.
[00:16:22] Bonnie: [00:16:22] Yeah. And when we’re talking about the cold war, I mean the whole idea that they had the nuclear bomb and that that could destroy everything and quickly, and that people built bombshells. Have you, have you seen those, um, pictures from bomb shelters that have been untouched?
[00:16:40] For like 40 or 50 years.
[00:16:42] Karen: [00:16:42] Yeah. Yeah.
[00:16:43] Bonnie: [00:16:43] Oh, so
[00:16:45] Karen: [00:16:45] interesting. Yes. And eating with all the weird foods. And I mean, we have Jim Baker trying to set that up again cause he’s selling his Armageddon buckets and he now has a deal on it and you can find the same [00:17:00] stuff on Amazon. Go back to our episode on him. Um,
[00:17:04] Bonnie: [00:17:04] let me, let me just also say what is fascinating to me is the lengths people will go to in order to preserve their own lives with the bunkers and the buckets of food, but like, Uh, you know, they see their neighbor get gunned down in a mass shooting and it’s like, ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:17:23] But won’t happen to me. I’ve got the, you know, I’ve got to take care of myself and with this bunker. So how do they think that their life is so fucking precious? What makes them so indispensable,
[00:17:36] Karen: [00:17:36] right? No, it’s exceptionalism, the old I’m special, but the
[00:17:44] Bonnie: [00:17:44] rest
[00:17:44] Karen: [00:17:44] of man. So is everyone else. Yeah.
[00:17:48] Bonnie: [00:17:48] Yeah. Oh, these people, people aren’t unique enough and interesting enough and exceptional enough to make a.
[00:17:55] Loss so that we won’t go on everybody down again
[00:17:58] Karen: [00:17:58] now. [00:18:00] No, and that’s what I was going to say. One part that frustrates the hell out of me is the idea that some Christians are letting some of this go through because, because it supposedly ushers in. The end times. So it’s like, ah, fuck it. There’s going to be lawlessness.
[00:18:21] Cause that’s Jesus just going to return. So you mean, they’re just,
[00:18:26] Bonnie: [00:18:26] they’re just accepting it and they’re like, okay.
[00:18:28] Karen: [00:18:28] Yeah, exactly. That’s now that’s, what’s horrifying about all of it. Um, that we have this same goddamn people who have made their bunkers and are going to protect themselves and their, yeah.
[00:18:48] Now I’m mad, but this is a hilarious,
[00:18:51] Bonnie: [00:18:51] she is, this is coming back. Don’t you want to see him? Why would you stay in a bunker?
[00:18:56] Karen: [00:18:56] He can just blow the top off of that. And then [00:19:00] you rise through it and then you get a new body and then you get a mansion. That’s
[00:19:08] Bonnie: [00:19:08] right. I forgot about that.
[00:19:10] Karen: [00:19:10] Yep.
[00:19:11] Bonnie: [00:19:11] So forget your savings.
[00:19:13] You don’t need to buy
[00:19:14] Karen: [00:19:14] a house. No. And we are
[00:19:16] Bonnie: [00:19:16] at a mentioned
[00:19:18] Karen: [00:19:18] deconversion therapy PO box four 90. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but yeah, the whole violence thing, all of that, I mean, just watch gladiator. We’ve had it going on forever. So these aren’t new, the whole Wars violence lawlessness. And we had
[00:19:39] Bonnie: [00:19:39] a lot of protests in the late sixties, early seventies, too.
[00:19:43] Karen: [00:19:43] Yeah. In fact, a friend of mine who was alive during that time, cause my kids are freaked out thinking, you know, they’re not going to get to grow up and have kids. And I think, you know, uh, climate change and all this that’s [00:20:00] happening. And, um, our friends from the sixties were having lunch and they just said, you know, we just want to assure you that we felt exactly like you did, because it’s yeah.
[00:20:14] Is the civil rights movement and all the violence in the streets and Tiana and square and, um, Berkeley. And then you had, um, the. Vietnam war. You had new books, you know, they all thought they were going to get blown up and didn’t know new Gralise. So they felt this just as hard as we did, but like you said, they didn’t have Facebook and all these things where they can scare the hell out of each other.
[00:20:46] Bonnie: [00:20:46] Yeah. It’s so instant now. Um, alright. What else
[00:20:52] Karen: [00:20:52] do you want me to go on with a few of mine or you want to tell yours? Um,
[00:20:56] Bonnie: [00:20:56] if you want me to tell mine it’s going to be long, but that’s fine.
[00:20:59] Karen: [00:20:59] Yeah. Go [00:21:00] ahead and tell yours.
[00:21:01] Bonnie: [00:21:01] Okay. Okay. So Karen, yes. You scroll down two pages of the doc that we’re both looking at back in 2011.
[00:21:14] I realized with doing my research, that this is a good tie in for an episode of 30 rock where Kenneth says, Oh, Reverend, whatever his name is says that the world is going to end and he has a time and he’s ready and he’s prepared. And he’s saying his goodbyes to everybody, right? And that episode took place in 2012 after 2011.
[00:21:43] Karen: [00:21:43] Saw I think I remember this maybe.
[00:21:47] Bonnie: [00:21:47] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, of Harold camping. So in 2011, uh, it says after the failure of his last prediction, he said, the [00:22:00] world would end on May 21st, 2011. And when that didn’t happen, he amended the date to October 21st. Right, right. Or wrong.
[00:22:10] Karen: [00:22:10] He said, I did the calculations wrong.
[00:22:14] Bonnie: [00:22:14] Right. So why would we think you’re doing it right this time? Um, He conceded that he had been wrong about the timing and had no evidence that the world would end soon. He offered an apology for his erroneous statements, which he called sinful and hinted that his days of apocalyptic warnings were over.
[00:22:35] So scroll down to that next page and look at the picture. There’s one of the billboards.
[00:22:40] Karen: [00:22:40] Yeah, that’s right. Yeah.
[00:22:42] Bonnie: [00:22:42] It’s announcing,
[00:22:43] Karen: [00:22:43] it says
[00:22:45] Bonnie: [00:22:45] judgment
[00:22:46] Karen: [00:22:46] day, May 21st, 2011. Okay. It has, um, like a silhouette clip art of a man’s squatting either pooping [00:23:00] without a toilet or praying. We know now it says the Bible guarantees it.
[00:23:05] And it says cry mightily unto God. And it also. So, so you can listen to family radio.com Monday through Friday, Friday five 30 to 7:00 PM.
[00:23:17] Bonnie: [00:23:17] Yeah. So like get their ads in while they can, because the end of times are coming. And then in the forefront of that picture, there’s a big guy and his back has a tattoo of an automatic weapon.
[00:23:34] Karen: [00:23:34] That’s just America.
[00:23:37] Bonnie: [00:23:37] Yeah. I don’t know what’s going on with all of that, but I’m just gonna read you the article that was in the New York times about this guy when he died. Okay. Harold camping.
[00:23:48] Karen: [00:23:48] I didn’t know. He died.
[00:23:53] Bonnie: [00:23:53] Well, we didn’t know really much about it when he was here. Yeah. But Harold camping, a [00:24:00] Christian radio entrepreneur, and biblical soothsayer who stirred consternation. Ecstasy complaints to the FCC federal communications commission and widespread ridicule by repeatedly prophesizing. The end of the world twice in 2011, died on Sunday at his home in Alameda, California.
[00:24:20] He was 92. To a global following, probably in the millions mr. Camping. Yeah. Was the personification of the family radio network, broadcasting, a nondenominational Christian ministry from Oakland, California, over scores of stations in the United States and 30 other countries. This is a huge business.
[00:24:43] Karen: [00:24:43] It really is.
[00:24:44] And I don’t know where he made his money before this, but I mean that. You know,
[00:24:50] Bonnie: [00:24:50] it’s in the article, but I didn’t, I didn’t choose to read it. Cause I thought it was boring. Yeah, buddy. But he took this mud.
[00:24:57] Karen: [00:24:57] You see the sausage money,
[00:25:00] [00:25:00] Bonnie: [00:25:00] Chicago. Yeah. He did. He made his money and then he put it, hold on one second.
[00:25:06] If you want me to find out,
[00:25:08] Karen: [00:25:08] no. Okay.
[00:25:10] Bonnie: [00:25:10] So he made piles of money and then he put it into this radio network. And then they talked about when he died, what was on the balance sheets. And it was like, You know, almost less than fee. It was somewhere shy of, I think, 50 million in assets, 29 million in debts or something, but it was doing well, but I mean, to be dealing in the millions like
[00:25:33] Karen: [00:25:33] that.
[00:25:34] Bonnie: [00:25:34] It’s insane.
[00:25:36] Karen: [00:25:36] And so just the volume, Sean foyer, right? Except in a chair, like they were like, how do we get the word out there? What’s going to get the most attention. And of course, during, during a pandemic, it would be traveling and gathering people cause that’s gonna make the news, but this guy, I guess, made his own news.
[00:26:00] [00:26:00] Bonnie: [00:26:00] Yeah. So this listen to this. Um, so he had all of these radio stations that would broadcast the show for 50 years. He was the charismatic host of the networks. Open forum. Listen to this, a 90 minute weekday Colin program, 90 minutes, a day of inspirational commentary discussions and advice. I’m here. I’m going to put this in as we’re speaking to the document, are you going to hear her picture?
[00:26:31] No. I’m going to show you his picture is grizzled.
[00:26:34] Karen: [00:26:34] I remember. Oh man. Yeah. He’s yeah,
[00:26:38] Bonnie: [00:26:38] long faced and big eared and melting
[00:26:41] Karen: [00:26:41] Vulcan looked to him, a very beige sort of early Dwight Schrute,
[00:26:51] Bonnie: [00:26:51] a lot of plaid tope. Beiges.
[00:26:56] Karen: [00:26:56] Yes.
[00:26:56] Bonnie: [00:26:56] Yes. Um, okay. So [00:27:00] let’s see. It also says he was a lifelong student of the Bible whose books rely on a vast assemblage of numbers.
[00:27:06] And with his affinity for numerology, he became preoccupied with what he regarded as the greatest calculation of them, all the mystery of what the scriptures might reveal as the date of the apocalypse. Except to God is math wrong, right? God, can you imagine, I’m terrified to tell somebody if a number is wrong so much so that I do my math, like five times.
[00:27:29] Can you imagine calling them the end of the world? No. Oh crap. I was off by about six months,
[00:27:34] Karen: [00:27:34] right?
[00:27:35] Bonnie: [00:27:35] What I love giving keep donating.
[00:27:38] Karen: [00:27:38] Yeah, that’s true. What I love is I was, I don’t know if I told it already on here, but I was going through this big hotel once and there, it was like a funky Christian convention.
[00:27:52] I don’t know where. Places had booths and there was this big band. And I remember one of the [00:28:00] main words was XY. And, but it said that they had used numerology. To go into the old Testament and this was all written on the banner. Cause you know how the crazy, yeah. Crazy Christian banners have just a million words on them.
[00:28:20] So it was
[00:28:21] Bonnie: [00:28:21] all going to stop and read it all. Exactly.
[00:28:24] Karen: [00:28:24] So it was. Like a squirrel across the whole, whole hotel. And it said that using numerology, they found the secret to where oil was and they were now accepting stockholders, you know, people to buy her. I’m like, Oh, I want to look up those guys now. I see
[00:28:50] Bonnie: [00:28:50] all the Beverly hillbillies show up.
[00:28:53] Right? Oh my gosh. But you know what? I love that you said that about the Christian banners, which just [00:29:00] more stuff thrown on. Look at that billboard. Who, who, who drives by and can read all the shit on that billboard
[00:29:07] Karen: [00:29:07] without, and then they sing and then
[00:29:10] Bonnie: [00:29:10] right. Yeah. It’s an 18 different fonts. And I just, and then there’s a little, a little, all out banner would zigzag around the perimeter of the circle that says the Bible confirms it or something like that, or guarantees that I can’t even read it.
[00:29:26] It’s so tiny in this picture, but when people do that, um, And regular advertisements. I think the same thing. I’m like, what do you think? We’re all going to just go, Oh my God, they put more in. We better read everything. No, give me one good thing to latch on to.
[00:29:43] Karen: [00:29:43] I just have not invested in a good PR firm.
[00:29:49] Bonnie: [00:29:49] The rest of Robert McFadden’s article is interesting and sad and funny. All of those things wrapped into one. Um, it says that this guy, [00:30:00] what’s his name again? Harold. Camping. Okay. Um, critics called him a con man, a lunatic, a heretic and worse, but to his believers, he was a throwback to the biblical prophets, spreading the word of Christ’s second coming.
[00:30:16] Okay. Judgment day and a rapture. When the faithful would ascend into heaven and nonbelievers would be destroyed in a five month worldwide cataclysm of earthquakes, fires and floods, which makes me think, why is everybody worried about. Being underground with their buckets of food. If they’re going to just fly up with Jesus anyway.
[00:30:40] Karen: [00:30:40] Yeah, well, there’s, um, The pre tribulation believers and the post ones. And that’s all I know. So you see how fascinating we can do something really interest or
[00:30:56] Bonnie: [00:30:56] something for everybody to torture everybody? Yeah. Okay. So [00:31:00] back to Harold, it says he was in ENA case. A determined messenger, starting in the seventies.
[00:31:05] He predicted the world’s demise. Many times drawing scant attention. His first widely noted doomsday was May 21st, 1988.
[00:31:16] Karen: [00:31:16] I wonder. First thing is then yeah, January, March, April, may that’s five and then list a
[00:31:24] Bonnie: [00:31:24] derivative of. Or it’s a multiple of seven and then there’s that magic seven number.
[00:31:29] Karen: [00:31:29] Gotcha. Yep.
[00:31:31] Yep. Yeah.
[00:31:32] Bonnie: [00:31:32] He later published 1994. Question Mark. A 500 page book.
[00:31:41] Karen: [00:31:41] Setting
[00:31:41] Bonnie: [00:31:41] a range of dates that September,
[00:31:44] Karen: [00:31:44] hopefully it’s just like one page said October, man, that’s
[00:31:51] Bonnie: [00:31:51] bad. Despite the derision of mainstream Christian groups and scathing secular critics, mr. Camping, having conceded errors [00:32:00] in his earlier calculations, decided to try again and late 2008, the end he said would come on May 21st, 2011.
[00:32:10] The date was based on a complex formula involving the biblical floods survived by Noah. In what mr. Camping said was the 40 was 4,990 BC, a 7,000 year clock. That began ticking from that moment and the subtraction of one year, because of a difference in the old Testament and new Testament calendars. So 7,000 years.
[00:32:32] It’s a seven times, even 1000. Okay.
[00:32:36] Karen: [00:32:36] That seemed,
[00:32:39] Bonnie: [00:32:39] it seemed like
[00:32:40] Karen: [00:32:40] he did that on his Casio watch,
[00:32:44] Bonnie: [00:32:44] younger spelling booby. Isn’t it. Um, mr. Camping, a thin man with a craggy face.
[00:32:52] Karen: [00:32:52] This is like his obituary. Yeah, that’s hilarious.
[00:32:57] Bonnie: [00:32:57] Terrible. Yeah. Yeah. And a resonant baritone [00:33:00] radio voice relentlessly promoted the date and its fateful consequences for more than two years on his listener supported network on 5,000 billboards.
[00:33:11] Karen: [00:33:11] That’s expensive.
[00:33:13] Bonnie: [00:33:13] I know. And in countless books and pamphlets translated into 75 languages to pay for it all. He raised tens of millions of dollars from listeners.
[00:33:23] Karen: [00:33:23] Yeah. Yeah.
[00:33:25] Bonnie: [00:33:25] Okay. The money you could take and buy 5,000 billboard ads with you could feed so many people and do so much good,
[00:33:35] Karen: [00:33:35] but that isn’t the end.
[00:33:39] Bonnie: [00:33:39] No, that’s not the end goal. Okay. As the day. And there was an avalanche of publicity, newspaper and magazine articles, television forums, and nonstop chatter on the internet. It’s
[00:33:50] Karen: [00:33:50] called scuttlebutt.
[00:33:53] Bonnie: [00:33:53] The hullabaloo, um, opinions ran from portentous credulity to Mary McCurry with [00:34:00] lots of clownish commentary and anguished.
[00:34:02] Hand-wringing mr. Camping, estimated that 7 billion would die and followers spoke of settling their affairs and spending their final days with loved ones. No one knows how many people rushed into marriages. Scrambled to repent. Yeah. Ran up
[00:34:19] Karen: [00:34:19] credit card debts
[00:34:21] Bonnie: [00:34:21] through last parties, quit their jobs or gave away their possessions.
[00:34:28] Yeah. But the reaction was widespread and in some cases tragic, especially among people who feared being left behind to face an agonist and
[00:34:38] Karen: [00:34:38] that’s
[00:34:39] Bonnie: [00:34:39] all right. So here’s the sad part. With three days to go a mother in Palmdale, California stabbed her daughter 11 and 14 years old. Yeah. And cut her own throat with a box cutter.
[00:34:52] Karen: [00:34:52] Police said, God,
[00:34:54] Bonnie: [00:34:54] avoid the calamity. All survived.
[00:34:57] Karen: [00:34:57] Oh, okay.
[00:34:58] Bonnie: [00:34:58] Yeah. A [00:35:00] man in Taiwan. This one’s better and worse. A man in Taiwan fearing that recent earthquakes and tsunamis signal, imminent doom leapt to his death from a building. That’s
[00:35:11] Karen: [00:35:11] awful. I
[00:35:12] Bonnie: [00:35:12] know. Um, I didn’t mean that, that was the good one. This next one.
[00:35:17] The irony is painful. Um, and in Antioch, California, a man who could not swim, tried to reach God across a Lake and drowned police said
[00:35:28] Karen: [00:35:28] fucked up. I mean, that’s like, you know, some of those people might be delusional and this feeds right into that disaster.
[00:35:40] Bonnie: [00:35:40] But because if you wanted to leap to your death, maybe you could wait until something started.
[00:35:49] Karen: [00:35:49] Right. Right. You’re like, this is, yeah. Maybe I’m have anxiety. Let’s just skip and yeah.
[00:36:00] [00:35:59] Bonnie: [00:35:59] Um, so when nothing much happened on May 21st legions of crestfallen believers, professed, astonishment, and disappointment, many called family radio to denounce mr. Camping as a false profit Oakland station was vandalized and there were threats against him, his family and station personnel.
[00:36:21] Yeah, mr. Camping said he was flabbergasted that his prediction said not materialized.
[00:36:29] Karen: [00:36:29] And, you know, can you just imagine it’s like, Doris, what time is it now? It’s just seven Oh five heroin and then right up until, okay. I don’t know if this is actually true, but something makes sense. We think that. As it got close to midnight.
[00:36:50] So I remember that day. I mean, there were all these arguments, people would be like, the Bible says, no one knows the timer plays. So this guy can’t [00:37:00] know, but there was something about okay, which midnight on which time zone. So I’m sure when it didn’t happen on his, you know, California
[00:37:13] Bonnie: [00:37:13] East coast time.
[00:37:14] Karen: [00:37:14] Yeah.
[00:37:15] Yeah, exactly. Okay. Uh,
[00:37:18] Bonnie: [00:37:18] let’s see. After a few days he was in seclusion, uh, after a few days in seclusion to figure out what had gone wrong. Yep. He announced new conclusions basically that God had quietly completed judgment day on May 21st
[00:37:36] Karen: [00:37:36] and closed.
[00:37:37] Bonnie: [00:37:37] Yeah. And closed the books on heaven.
[00:37:39] Karen: [00:37:39] So sneaky, huh?
[00:37:41] Bonnie: [00:37:41] I know and said he had recalibrated the end of times, date for five months later on October 21st, the new prediction was delivered in low key without billboards or pamphlets.
[00:37:52] Mr. Camping said there was no need because the process of salvation was over
[00:37:58] Karen: [00:37:58] that. I
[00:37:59] Bonnie: [00:37:59] like that he [00:38:00] gets to decide too late.
[00:38:03] Karen: [00:38:03] Wow.
[00:38:03] Bonnie: [00:38:03] So the FCC received a lot of complaints from around the nation demanding, uh, the family radios broadcasts. Licenses being revoked for having created a panic and deceive listeners into donating millions to perpetuate.
[00:38:17] Um, let’s say, okay. So then it says weeks after the May 21st fiasco, mr. Camping suffered a mild stroke and suspended his program, they returned in September, but spoke no more of earthquakes and fiery doom. He told listeners I really am beginning to think as I restudied. These matters. That there’s going to be no big display of any kind.
[00:38:45] The end is going to come very, very quietly.
[00:38:50] Karen: [00:38:50] Fucking God. See? Yeah, nobody called so Christ. Now let me tell you what’s really going to happen. The [00:39:00] careless seats are all
[00:39:02] Bonnie: [00:39:02] macarons are going to rise
[00:39:03] Karen: [00:39:03] up.
[00:39:04] Bonnie: [00:39:04] Oh, so let’s see, five months later, uh, he apologized for getting it wrong and acknowledged that he had no new evidence pointing to another date for the end of the world and no interest in considering another date, but he found a silver lining in the confusion.
[00:39:21] He said his incorrect and sinful statement allowed God to get the attention of a great many people who otherwise would not have paid attention.
[00:39:31] Karen: [00:39:31] Isn’t that always salad is always, there’s always a scapegoat verse person incident that happens like, well, I’m glad that I cheated in front of my whole congregation that just showed them that the devil is real,
[00:39:51] Bonnie: [00:39:51] right.
[00:39:52] Oh, here are the numbers. Um, They in the 2009 financial disclosure, uh, [00:40:00] the network had a budget of 36 million. They got 18.3 million and listener contributions, 34 million in investments, 56 million in assets, and then 29 million in liable.
[00:40:16] Karen: [00:40:16] I see. I’m like, You are with, uh, studying all this. When you say numbers, like I just.
[00:40:27] Totally glazed. Cause I don’t understand numbers and the least, so I assume that’s a whole lot and seem it wasn’t
[00:40:36] Bonnie: [00:40:36] when you got the million
[00:40:37] Karen: [00:40:37] involved. Yeah, it’s just, I think so one time I remember we were going to, um, this local hotel where we used to live to. Because you could eat there and meet people and all that.
[00:40:53] So were they
[00:40:54] Bonnie: [00:40:54] on, of course you could meet people, but
[00:40:57] Karen: [00:40:57] not that kind, [00:41:00] but we were just going, uh, happened to be at the hotel, not staying there, but there was a traveling family and a van and I had walked either in front or in back of them. And they had a bumper sticker about that. And it was after the event and I real really?
[00:41:25] Yeah. Cause it was like, this is returning May 21st dah, dah, dah. And it was like a month or two after that. And that
[00:41:35] Bonnie: [00:41:35] go,
[00:41:36] Karen: [00:41:36] well, I didn’t ask, but I also wondered like, What if, like, what could they be doing? Are they on a vacation to just cleanse their palate, headed down to Disney and just forget about this?
[00:41:52] Or had they sold their house and they’re
[00:41:56] Bonnie: [00:41:56] like, they’re living in their van,
[00:42:00] [00:42:00] Karen: [00:42:00] um,
[00:42:00] Bonnie: [00:42:00] at the least, why wouldn’t you just get some WD 40 and get the sticker off your bumper?
[00:42:06] Karen: [00:42:06] Exactly. That’s what I was also like yeah. When you just take that off. But I just felt so bad once I started seeing the kids, you know, fallen out the side of the door, like the Duggars and they all had their pillows and, you know, I was like, I’m not gonna say a thing, but, um, Yeah, that’s crazy.
[00:42:27] Bonnie: [00:42:27] bought it off the family there. They got the book. Yeah.
[00:42:31] Karen: [00:42:31] That makes me feel better about him.
[00:42:34] Bonnie: [00:42:34] Good. Okay.
[00:42:35] Karen: [00:42:35] Then I remember that clearly.
[00:42:37] Bonnie: [00:42:37] Oh, wow. Well, I as is as usual, I think I get a lot of my news from the sitcoms and the nightly television comedy shows of the day,
[00:42:50] Karen: [00:42:50] the late night talk shows. Yeah. Yep.
[00:42:53] Well, Well in this with saying that goes, like we said, totally in [00:43:00] with the verse that says no one knows the time or place of Jesus’s return. And so it made me feel good when I was a kid. And if people are worried about it now, now, if just each one of us across the world thinks Jesus is returning on a certain day and we all cover one day.
[00:43:22] He’ll never return.
[00:43:25] Bonnie: [00:43:25] Right.
[00:43:26] Karen: [00:43:26] So I think we are going to put out a grid, a sign up sheet under signup genius, and everyone can take a day.
[00:43:35] Bonnie: [00:43:35] Oh yeah.
[00:43:36] Karen: [00:43:36] Sounds good.
[00:43:39] Bonnie: [00:43:39] Do we want to do a little ending here and then
[00:43:42] Karen: [00:43:42] yeah. Okay. We’re going to return with the. And of the end times a duo of podcast, hopefully relieve your anxiety.
[00:43:56] That the world is really, and the end times right now. [00:44:00] So stay tuned for next week when we get into that’s right. Bonnie pandemic. Yes.
[00:44:08] Bonnie: [00:44:08] And don’t worry things aren’t ending. You’ve got a lot of shit to come,
[00:44:12] Karen: [00:44:12] and that means our next episode. We’ll see you then.
[00:44:18] Bonnie: [00:44:18] Bye [00:45:00] .
We’ll never get enough of our listeners’ letters of growing up in whichever religious community they did. And this week we had TWO Mennonite stories, a Jesus alter, and
Here are the letters we read on the podcast:
From Anonymous Mennonite:
Hey Karen and Bonnie!
I just want to say I LOVE your podcast! It gives me way more life than Jesus ever did.
Over the years my family attended basically every kind of church in search of God’s will for us: Methodist, Presbyterian, a Non-denominational mega-church, a small Southern Baptist church that met in a public school, charismatic churches, a Pentecostal church….so many sometimes I lose track! I guess we were chasing the anointing or something. God works in mysterious ways.
However the crowning jewel in my church attendance tiara is the two years when my family became Mennonites. My parents were not born Mennonites….that’s just what they felt God was calling us to be.
We actually moved STATES to begin this new lifestyle. We visited two churches to get a feel for which would best fit us. The first church we visited turned out to be too conservative for our comfort. If we joined this church, we could still drive a car, but it had to be painted black (to avoid being gaudy) and we would also have to remove the radio (to get rid of the temptation of worldly music). We women could only wear certain colors, though which ones have escaped my memory, and the ankle-length dresses could only be solid colors (no patterned fabric). We decided to try a different church.
The next church we ended up sticking with! It was more lenient in its standards. No required car colors, we could keep the radio (though you really should only listen to classical music or hymns sung a cappella), and dresses could be any color or patterned fabric! Just no red–red is the color of harlots.
I have to say, my favorite memory of our time there was when my parents and I told them we “went to see the orchestra.” We really went to a Trans Siberian Orchestra concert, but we were NOT supposed to listen to that evil genre of music called *rock*, so we had to leave out a few convenient details to get babysitters for my young siblings. I mean, it wasn’t technically a lie, right? There was a mini-orchestra!!
Anyway, I am no longer a Mennonite, nor do I attend church of any kind. In fact, I’m about as far from Mennonite as you can get! I have piercings and purple hair, I wear shorts and leggings, and I have a baby with my boyfriend. The most scandalous part is probably the shorts though.
Thank you for the podcast, and I hope this letter brought some entertainment!
From Anonymous Mennonite:
So I grew up Mennonite, the kind that isn’t allowed to drink, dance, smoke, watch movies or have sex, but can wear regular clothing. A post-modern mennonite, if you will. Anyhoo. It’s the mid-80s and I’m at bible college where I have a few really fun friends but am actually kinda shy with a healthy dose of social anxiety. One evening, the whole campus worth of us Christian kids are told to drive to the riverbank a few miles away for a whopping good evening of wholesome fun. To get there, we had to carpool but I hadn’t made any pre-plans for this so I had to run around searching for a free seat in any car I could find. I walk past full car after full car.and I am in social hell right there. Finally I find a car with space for me but with 3 relative strangers: The driver, a devout but desperate for a wife Mennonite farmer boy; a girl who was once pranked with a muffin served in a jock strap, and she ATE IT; and a boy whom I was familiar with because of his spectacular zit collection and poor oral hygiene. And guess who I got to cram in beside. Yep. His leg was resting against mine – perhaps a bit more than necessary, but it was a little Honda Civic so I let it go. He also seemed a bit fidgety but I thought nothing of that either at the time. And anyway, it was a short drive to the river; this awkward foursome would disband soon. Or so I thought. So we get to the river bank and yada yada a good time was probably had by some, but then, when it was time to drive back to campus, we all crammed back into our rides and gun for campus but one minute into the ride back our car ran out of gas. (Remember the 80s, when we could throw a $5 in the tank and hope for the best? Ya. Didn’t work out too well that day.) We watched as car after car drove around us to get back. No one stopped! To this day I can see retreating tail lights in the dust and hear myself whisper yelling NOOOOO! COME BACK! So we sat there for a few long minutes expecting someone to realize we hadnt returned. Minutes turned to HOURS. Evening turned to night. It got cold. At one point FarmerBoy suggested that we get out of the car and stand to pray for help. Zit guy, whom I will now refer to as AssItch got an itchy ass and started scootching his but against the seat, so I was 100% in on getting out and calling on Jesus to help get me outta there. We got out of the car and stood in a circle while FarmerBoy called out to Jesus in his most reverent pray-voice. We got back in the car. We sat in silence. AssItch scootched his itchy butt. Farmer boy tried to turn the car on to warm us up, but no gas. More butt scootching (And as crammed in as we were, when he was itching his butt against the seat, he was itching it against me too). The driver called for us all to get out and pray again. So we get out and call out to the Lord for salvation. Aaaand back in we go. All is silent except for the sound of denim against car seat, just rubbing away. More hours tick by and now it is very cold and not as dark outside. Farmer boy suggests we all get out and pray again. I say, “I’m pretty sure God can hear through metal,” because as gross as AssItch was, I was freezing. That logic did not sit well with FarmerBoy. He got out to pray all by himself, at which point the sun was coming up and he realized there was a driveway to a farmhouse about 10 feet from our stalled car.. I said ‘well shiiiiit’ at the same time as JockMuffin yelled ‘praise the Lord!’ (Different perspectives, I guess.) AssItch and Farmerboy went to fetch some help while JockMuffin and I waited like good menno girls. When we finally got back to campus everyone else was heading into first class. I bumped into my roommate, who beamed a sweet smile and said, “Oh! I was wondering where you were!” This experience confirmed to me that I was totally expendable even to my Christian friends, and no one would notice or ever come looking if I went missing (and actually, leaving the church proved this theory to be right on the money.). Too bad I hadn’t been in a car with some hot guys, a bottle of vodka and some Marlborough’s – I wonder what THAT would have done for my theology. Anyway I wish nothing but the best for JockMuffin, I hope AssItch got some relief, and hope that FarmerBoy find a good wife and a full tank somewhere out on the mission field. As for me today, I never leave home without a solid pack of smokes and an empty bladder. Oh – and I have a husband with a squeaky clean butt. #thingsthatbecomedealbreakers #mennolife #adooverwoulddefinitelyincludeVodka
Stay classy you two! Thanks for the chuckles!
A couple of weeks ago I was with a group riding bicycles across Missouri on the KATY Trail (Missouri-Kansas-Texas Railroad, MKT or KATY). This was a 5-day adventure during which I caught up on the podcast and listened to many episodes. Somewhere abound mile 150 I decided to write and tell my story. So here we go.
To start, here are a couple anecdotes about how goofy the Catholic Church was in the 60’s.
I grew up Catholic in Northeast Indiana and went to Catholic schools for 12 years in the 60’s and 70’s. In elementary school all students went to mass every school day before classes started. This was back in the day when all girls had to wear a head covering in church. If a girl forgot her little lace head covering (looked like the doily under a cake), one of the Nuns would bobby-pin a tissue to her head. I guess wearing Kleenex on her head made all the difference.
Prior to 1964, a person was required to refrain from eating or drinking anything (other than water and medicine) starting at midnight before receiving communion. So here we were, a church full of children who hadn’t eaten since the evening before trying to be devout and pay attention to the same service we attended yesterday and would attend tomorrow. Pope Paul VI on November 21, 1964 reduced the fast to a period of one hour.
So on to my specific story.
I am very left-handed. Well, this was a problem for the Nun teaching 2nd grade. As we were learning cursive writing she would constantly force me to use my right hand. She took particular enjoyment in calling me a “child of the devil” because I was left-handed. After a few days of this she started smacking my knuckles with a ruler whenever I used my left hand. One day after being smacked so many time my knuckles were raw I snatched the ruler from her hand, broke it across my knee and screamed: “Stop hitting me Bitch!”
She dragged me by my ear up 2 flights of marble stairs to the principal’s office where they called my Father. While waiting for Dad, the Monsignor (basically the senior pastor and head of the school) arrived and was glaring at me too. I was sitting in the principal’s outer office scared out of my mind when Dad arrived. He walked past me into the inner office and closed the door. My Father was a relatively soft-spoken man but when he talked it was a good idea to listen. Through the door I hear him say to the teacher, the principal, and the Monsignor: “If you ever touch my son again, I will tear this building down around your ears.”
Dad and I walked out together, got in the car, and drove home. The only thing he ever said about the incident was: “I understand your motivation but I don’t approve of your method.”
I learned much later that Dad was left-handed in his youth and ran into the same problem in school. Needless to say, I learned cursive with my left hand.
That is just one of the many stories from my Catholic school days.
Thank you for the great podcast and the community you have built. Listening to you made bicycle riding across Missouri a lot more enjoyable.
I went to film school at a private Christian University 5 years ago where they taught us to make films for Jesus. One time, one of my classmates ran into a 7th day Adventist wandering around campus on their way to class. (I don’t know why one was on a Christian campus. I don’t think they would be converting anyone.) They handed him a postcard with a picture of white Jesus on the front. He brought it to class with him and we all started laughing about the stereotypical whiteness, cuz we were “woke” Christians that knew Jesus couldn’t possibly look American. Anyway, we ended up passing the image around the room, and everyone added a doodle or signed it. In the end, we had Jesus (Who had his hands open upward in the TV carrying position), wearing headphones, smoking a joint, and had fire bursting from his hands. We hung it up on a billboard in the main building area and created a shrine to white Jesus. He has been up there for several years now.
Karen and Bonnie, love the podcast! It has been a huge help to me personally as I have been walking through deconverting from Christianity. It is nice to know there are other people out there going through the same thing.
Adopted kids. Weird marriage. Gospel music. Murder.
This story has almost as many twists and turns as the name Flordelis dos Santos de Souza itself.
Flordelis is just your average woman with 3 kids, raising them on her own. Perhaps due to boredom or a true heart to bring kids out of the poverty she was raised in, she adopted 5 teenagers. TEENAGERS. FIVE. Teenagers, like, eat a lot. And they are always pissed at everything. This woman is a saint. So saintly she went ahead and adopted more. MORE. The end total is upwards of 50, although the exact number is up for debate. But, really, once you pass 7, does it matter?
Flordelis became well-known in Brazil, even having a film made of her because of adoption story. Gorgeous, famous actors starred in it for free just so this heart-warming story could get out to the masses. And I don’t just mean the masses of adopted children she has.
If only she had time to find a husband. But, wait! What do they say is the main factor in finding a soulmate? Location, location, location. Flordelis married one of her adopted sons! Not sketchy enough? That son had also dated Flordelis’s biological daughter.
I’m surrrre that was the only strange sex mess going on in a house of 55 people.
Moving on (but not emotionally), during this time, she becomes a gospel singer. I don’t know when this happens or if she’s any good and I don’t really care to know either. Once married to her adopted son ex-possible son-in-law, the two of them start…wait for it…a church. Three churches.
As performers know, if no one wants you to sing or act, start your own company. Now Flordelis had somewhere to sing every Sunday and her husband preached. It must have been profitable enough to help feed the “children.”
Soooo, are you a mother? How’s that homeschooling going? Oh, you can’t do everything, you say? Why are you so deficient? Flordelis had a massive amount of children, a gospel singing career, 3 churches AND THEN she ran for congress. AND WON.
The party she won with is a Christian party because Brazil doesn’t fool itself by pretending church and state aren’t mixed.
The woman is everywhere. She was on talk shows, meeting important people, singing, congressing. And, after doing the math, spending 2 quality minutes with each adopted or bio child. Or her child husband thing.
Then last year…her son/husband was found shot!
I won’t bore you with possible scenarios because we all know what’s coming by how much time I spent on the woman. But she didn’t shoot him herself. One of her sons did with the help of some others. Supposedly Flordelis didn’t like the way he handled the money, blah, blah, blah.
Because she was a Christian ✝️ she said she couldn’t divorce. Enjoy the logic.
And soon it comes out that Flordelis and her daughter (who was also the ex-girlfriend of her stepfather/brother) had teamed up together–as exes like to do–and had tried to poison him previously. There are hospital records of him having severe diarrhea.
Lock her up! Lock her up! We all chant in unison.
Oh, I’m sorry, they can’t. She has parliamentary immunity! They have, however, arrested one or more of the children (they’re 18 or over, I think) who helped.
The husband/son/ex/brother/pastor was shot 30 times! Many in the groin, which leads me to believe there might have even been some other sex-related reasons for the killing or at least the anger behind it. That’s fucked up either way.
After the story broke, more information came out on this family. It seemed there was a hierarchy in the house among the kids–a sort of varsity league/JV situation. Some were fed decent food, others just bread.
Some people who knew the family summed it up well. It was a cult. You had a religious leader and and 55 followers.
It’s disgusting and fascinating. There are rumors of one of the daughters being offered to an American evangelist. Yikes. Which one could it be??
In the coming months and weeks I’m sure we’ll hear more about this case. Other politicians (one who is ALSO a gospel singer) are trying to change some rules so she can be sent to jail.
We’ll keep you updated!
We’d love to hear what you thought of this episode in the comments.
And, please, don’t forget to rate and review.
This guy! Sean Feucht. What an arrogant, dangerous asshole.
We’ve had a lot of listeners ask us to look into this grifter and we were shocked at what we found. I don’t know why we keep getting shocked. The Jerry Falwell Jr scandal just split wide open and he stepped down from Liberty University just last night. Buttttt, for all the damage Falwell has done–and helping get Trump elected is a HUGE one–this jort-wearing, Airstream-owning, Instagram-savior, poser, Sean Feucht is an actual health menace.
THIS GUY sees himself as the only one who can spread Jesus right now. Damn the rules. Jesus NEEDS people singing. Jesus isn’t powerful enough to keep people from COVID-19 AND be in their hearts. So, he sent Sean. Sean, who brings his arrogance to cities across the country where young, idealistic people gather to worship, then take home the virus to their families. Will we ever hear about those cases? Doubtful.
Here he is, stretching his arm across 3 other people to make sure he touches the edge of Trump’s garment. You can see all his shots online because, you know, humility.
Here is the list of cities he has scheduled for gatherings. Please call your city officials if he is headed to your town. He will say this is about trying to silence the church, or outlaw praise and worship. This is about someone willfully putting people in harm’s way and asking them to donate so he can do to the next city.
God damn, this guy.
Christian International Church | 99 1 Bridges Rd | 6pm EST
New York, NY
Washington Square Park | 6pm EST
Boston Commons | 4pm EST
200 Water St NE | 6pm PST
Waterfront Park | 6pm PST
Capitol Building | 5pm PST
Gasworks Park | 6pm
Fort Collins, CO
Town Square | 6pm
Colorado Springs, CO
Memorial Park | 10am
10 W Lake St | 6pm
Steps of State Capital | 6pm
Veterans Memorial | 6pm
TBD | 6pm
Edgewater Park Beach | 6pm
Feucht – 8:25:20, 9.06 PM
[00:01:00] Bonnie: [00:01:00] Hi everyone. And welcome to deconversion therapy. The podcast. This is Bonnie and.
[00:01:20] Karen: [00:01:20] Karen and,
[00:01:23] Bonnie: [00:01:23] and no one else and you are welcome. Um,
[00:01:29] Karen: [00:01:29] you’re welcome to have us.
[00:01:32] Bonnie: [00:01:32] You’re welcome. What no one said. Thank you. Um, so, so a way we should say thank you. We got the nicest review and it baffled the hell out of me when you sent it to me because it’s like, Oh, the, these people say funny things and, you know, nice things, nice things.
[00:01:52] And, um, I cause I can’t remember what the review said, although it was positive. Um, and when you send it to me, [00:02:00] my first thought was is Karen secretly rerecording these with somebody else, putting them out there.
[00:02:06] Karen: [00:02:06] And now how could that be us for me to tell you something that’s right. Me and Kathy Griffith this podcast, I went tight for years.
[00:02:18] Bonnie: [00:02:18] It was just it’s nice. It was just so strange hearing somebody say something about somebody else, and then you realize, Oh, it’s us. And thank you
[00:02:28] Karen: [00:02:28] because
[00:02:30] Bonnie: [00:02:30] it comes from our heart. And I guess our brains
[00:02:33] Karen: [00:02:33] too, but
[00:02:34] Bonnie: [00:02:34] it’s, it’s, it’s just lovely having somebody else in on the conversation.
[00:02:40] Karen: [00:02:40] Yeah.
[00:02:41] Bonnie: [00:02:41] And you can’t say anything,
[00:02:43] Karen: [00:02:43] right.
[00:02:44] We would like to review your review. Thank you. These words, we loved this. It’s missing a comma. Um, yeah.
[00:02:54] Bonnie: [00:02:54] Yeah. So Karen would like, would like you to know that if you are. Inclined another review [00:03:00] like that from anybody else would be really helpful for algorithms and technology things.
[00:03:05] Karen: [00:03:05] Yeah. And to tell the truth, it just really keeps you and I motivated because we are just sitting in separate houses, talking into microphones.
[00:03:17] So we don’t. Really have a lot of feedback some of the time. So feedback is always great. We appreciate it and keeps us, you know, it’s like, um, what’s his name? Not gene Simmons. The other Seth
[00:03:33] Bonnie: [00:03:33] Meyers. He’s been doing a show in the attic and nobody’s. Responding for months.
[00:03:40] Karen: [00:03:40] I was thinking more the exercise guy that Richard, yes.
[00:03:46] Where you have someone who’s like, you can do it, go, you’ve got this, you know, and you just play off that energy. We need red energy, so same
[00:03:58] Bonnie: [00:03:58] way, because a great place [00:04:00] for the energy is our secret Facebook group. It’s not secret, but you do have to answer some questions and Karen will grant you entry to it.
[00:04:08] But we have a lot of really fun conversations going on on there, and people are very positive and uplifting and, uh, nobody knocks anybody down and it’s a nice place.
[00:04:22] Karen: [00:04:22] So the other place that people are really active is Instagram. And, and there’s last few days I posted a question on Twitter and Instagram about, you know, what did you always just assume was true when you were a Christian that later you found out wasn’t and whether you’re still a Christian, not et cetera.
[00:04:45] And mine was that Paul never met Jesus. Like I just. That blew my mind. I had always assumed. So all these people kept putting up amazing things and some I had never thought [00:05:00] of, and it just kept going and going, Twitter got more like scholarly. Like you bring this in and you do this, but ours was. Yeah.
[00:05:10] Every years was scholarly
[00:05:12] Bonnie: [00:05:12] enough for me. I’m like, Paul never met Jesus and I’m like, Oh crap, who was Paul?
[00:05:18] Karen: [00:05:18] Mmm that’s cause you weren’t a Christian Bonnie. So we’ve gone over this. I don’t have a good
[00:05:24] Bonnie: [00:05:24] memory for these things.
[00:05:27] Karen: [00:05:27] Well, he’s the one that started the church. So it’s sort of important to, to imagine he had met Jesus.
[00:05:36] Now, the story is he quotes met him. Um, I know mean walking down a dusty road, his name was Saul. He sees a vision. It’s Jesus, bam, your name’s Paul now. And um, I remember that. Yeah, you get to be white. You’re blessed. Go forth, make a [00:06:00] church. Oh, you’re not married. Have an issue with either homosexuality or women in general.
[00:06:07] Make sure you just slam that in there. So everyone gets fired. Yeah. So I, yeah, I thought he did met him and other ones were like, I’d always assumed that the gospels were written by the disciples and
[00:06:24] Bonnie: [00:06:24] guys who they were named
[00:06:25] Karen: [00:06:25] after, or the ones they were named after either, or, you know, they are not, it wasn’t either.
[00:06:34] And then, yeah, and it just kept going on in one, on one that was really good was so. The whole facility, um, let’s make my words correct. The whole prophecy about Jesus was fulfilling the old Testament because there was a prophecy that in the line of King David, there would be a Messiah. So, um, and that’s [00:07:00] that same great King David who, uh, cheated on his wife and had, um, the husband killed and war because he wanted to get it on with Sheba.
[00:07:12] Anyway, so there. Uh, someone brought up, how can Jesus really be in the line of David? If lineage is traced to the father and Joseph was not Israel father, so someone is going to be like, Oh, well, it’s blot and it’s blocked and it’s blah, but we’re looking at it. With this wide camera angle these days, like when you’re in it, you’re like, Oh, that’s because, um, you know, he was accepted into the family of Joseph and Joseph is his earthly father, just like we ever leave fathers and it can go on and on.
[00:07:58] But when you stand back, you’re [00:08:00] like, Yeah. What the fuck was that about?
[00:08:04] Bonnie: [00:08:04] Yeah. And even then when you ask some questions that have logical. Implications the answers are sometimes, well, just don’t worry about it. It’s like just the frustrating. Hm.
[00:08:15] Karen: [00:08:15] Right. No,
[00:08:17] Bonnie: [00:08:17] don’t ask that and you’ll be fine.
[00:08:19] Karen: [00:08:19] Yeah. You just have to know it in your heart, Bonnie.
[00:08:22] I feel things have changed in my heart. I, you know, I feel things I see. I
[00:08:28] Bonnie: [00:08:28] find it hard to believe something could change that drastically that long ago. If only in our lifetime, they changed the. Um, the lineage requirements for the King of England, you know, now, now it goes all to, uh, Prince William’s family, even, even the daughter.
[00:08:52] And before that wasn’t the case. So that just happened in our lifetimes. So I don’t know that they were bending the rules that much back [00:09:00] then.
[00:09:00] Karen: [00:09:00] And if they were bending the rules, I was thinking, okay, say you’re in the lineage of David, which is, you know, okay. You’re the highest, you’re a Kennedy and those times you’re, you’re supposedly up there.
[00:09:15] Wouldn’t you be able to use that to get in an, in. Just the like,
[00:09:22] Bonnie: [00:09:22] but you know who I am.
[00:09:24] Karen: [00:09:24] Yeah. I’m at the line of de fit. Why wasn’t that used? So it opened up a lot more of my deep scholarly, philosophical knowledge in my brain. Uh huh. Yeah, no, it just I’m like, yeah, but anyway, it’s really fun on Instagram and, um, Always send me memes.
[00:09:49] You can DM them to me. I steal them from you. I steal them from the Facebook group. I don’t care. I’m not moral anymore. [00:10:00] I’m not a Christian
[00:10:01] Bonnie: [00:10:01] anymore.
[00:10:02] Karen: [00:10:02] And so now into my neighborhood, into
[00:10:07] Bonnie: [00:10:07] your neighborhood, let me, let me just pause for a second and tell you that I wish I could stop watching what’s going on outside my window.
[00:10:15] Karen: [00:10:15] What’s that all these
[00:10:16] Bonnie: [00:10:16] Turkey vultures, and I don’t know what they’re eating, but yesterday one was working on some kind of little rodent kind of thing. And I guess now they’ve decided this is the place to look.
[00:10:27] Karen: [00:10:27] Yeah, I guess. I mean, Kevin’s hidden or maybe they’re Hawks there probably isn’t Oh, Turkey filters are super ugly.
[00:10:36] You would know. Well, I’m not that close, that ugly travels, you know? Alright. Um,
[00:10:44] Bonnie: [00:10:44] okay. So anyway, back to your neighborhood
[00:10:46] Karen: [00:10:46] in my neighborhood, there’s some Turkey vultures who are disguise. Did you hear my door open? That’s my dog. Okay. Hold on.
[00:10:59] Bonnie: [00:10:59] Let’s go in [00:11:00] on, in here.
[00:11:01] Karen: [00:11:01] Okay. I have to leave that open because guess who the vet put on antianxiety meds? Yes. Oh man. So he is he’s blind in one eye. He’s going deaf and he just needs to be around me all the time. And he shakes and awe it’s the usual male reaction to me. So my neighborhood, someone posts a picture in our community page, which now I’ve found out we have like eight community pages because everyone’s breaking off into their own, you know, political and philosophical, uh, areas, sir.
[00:11:46] One of the main ones, posts a picture of a gathering at a restaurant. Oh, it was so good to celebrate poop and shit. And everyone’s grinning. No, one’s in mass. They’re just all sitting around the [00:12:00] table like usual and. Unless so fucking tired of it. And of course, someone responds with like, okay, this is the problem, you know, wearing mass are good and blah, blah, blah.
[00:12:15] And, um, that comment got taken down for political reasons. I’m like, Oh, it’s political. It’s insane. And my husband and I were talking about. You know, this is unsafe, we’re in an unsafe, uh, area, but then in general, we’re in an unsafe country. We’re dying at an amazing rate, far more than Europe that locked all that shit down.
[00:12:51] And then it’s like, we can’t even go there cause no one’s accepting us. And if we did go there. Would we be [00:13:00] refugees. We be like, we are from a country where people are dying every day and we’re in danger. It’s insane.
[00:13:13] Bonnie: [00:13:13] There is a strangeness to me where people being asked to wear masks that they’re feeling oppressed.
[00:13:21] Karen: [00:13:21] Oh yeah.
[00:13:22] Bonnie: [00:13:22] There’s and like, if you talk to any, if you talk to anybody who’s been oppressed, that’s not oppression and it’s baffling to me. So is this just their reaction? Like. To, uh, to the protests that happened.
[00:13:41] Karen: [00:13:41] I don’t know. I think it’s a lot with the leader who said it, you know, that everyone has the right.
[00:13:48] And that’s what was happening on this Facebook page. It’s like, yes, that’s my other dog freaking out. He also needs things. IAT meds. Yeah, his [00:14:00] shit. And he’s like three pounds. Okay. But, um, actually he’s had some COVID-19 the vet said,
[00:14:09] so, you know, people are like, um, Well, everyone has a right to make their own decisions and it keeps getting thrown out that that masks are not just for you, but for other people, like you’re making the decision for someone else, which is exactly the kind of government you don’t want, but they doing it.
[00:14:33] Bonnie: [00:14:33] Okay. So the only thing I can equate it to is like helmet laws for motorcyclists.
[00:14:39] Karen: [00:14:39] Right. And of course, part of that
[00:14:40] Bonnie: [00:14:40] is. Protecting their noggins. Great. Okay. But another part of it is okay. If we have to invest the resources and scraping you up off of the street, taking an ambulance to a hospital and the resources of the staff at the hospital treating you, [00:15:00] you know, not to mention your own insurance, whether you have that or not, don’t you want to be don’t you want a lesson, you know, putting those resources to work.
[00:15:09] And with
[00:15:09] Karen: [00:15:09] COVID, if there’s a chance
[00:15:11] Bonnie: [00:15:11] of making this smaller, the population that has it, why wouldn’t we want to do that? And just not overstress the people in the hospitals,
[00:15:22] Karen: [00:15:22] right. And the yeah, the economy in general, they want the economy back. Can you not stay mass? And at home whenever possible for three fucking weeks, do that.
[00:15:35] What is the need? Maybe if you see that you just have to go out, you can get some therapy online and go through like, what is in me that feels like and be alone. And that’s okay. Because it’s a weird time. People come out of this, the same as they went in, that means they were assholes the same, the whole time
[00:16:01] [00:16:00] in church, you know, they said true joy is Jesus. There’s in yourself now it’s Jijo.
[00:16:13] Bonnie: [00:16:13] No, it’s just
[00:16:14] Karen: [00:16:14] G or E. I don’t know, it’s just totally fucked up. And it’s the same Christians who are doing it. Yeah. All
[00:16:25] Bonnie: [00:16:25] the O is gone. You’re right. The Oh, is, is, is gone. And, and the only thing is the other, the other wise are the other.
[00:16:36] Little versions of yourself running around churches.
[00:16:40] Karen: [00:16:40] Yeah.
[00:16:41] Bonnie: [00:16:41] Or the people who think exactly like you. I mean, I don’t want to kill people who think differently than I do
[00:16:47] Karen: [00:16:47] no. Come on them to die on their own. But I think I like your helmet thing. I think more about. It not being a law, but it being the standard that you [00:17:00] put your kid, who’s not potty trained in a diaper before you get in the pool.
[00:17:05] Those are the pool roles because they have to show up down all the time and drain out your kid’s diarrhea or it’s poop log or whatever. And. It can damage other people and it costs resources.
[00:17:21] Bonnie: [00:17:21] So lawn that’s great because if I’m in a pool and I see a kid coming in with a diaper, even if it’s sanctioned for swim wear,
[00:17:32] That’s too close for me.
[00:17:34] Karen: [00:17:34] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that’s, it’s a very small, you know, ask, so it’s not like right. They should go in the kiddie pool, which is also called the toilet. Alright. So,
[00:17:51] Bonnie: [00:17:51] I mean, if you want your own pool, go get a house with a pool, but if you’re sharing a pool.
[00:17:58] Karen: [00:17:58] Oh, God [00:18:00] Jaipur.
[00:18:00] Bonnie: [00:18:00] Some of that diarrhea seeping out
[00:18:03] Karen: [00:18:03] the new diapers can really suck that in.
[00:18:05] You know, they’re pretty, they can be pretty good at it, but I, it depends on, you know, Well, it depends what your kid ate because when she was little got into the dried apricots, we sent her to mother’s day out. They could keep it in the diaper. It was going out the sides. It was, they kept changing. Um, and yeah.
[00:18:34] Bonnie: [00:18:34] Mother’s day was just a whole bunch of phone calls. What did you feed this child? Oh my gosh.
[00:18:45] Karen: [00:18:45] Well that brings us right into who I think is a bioterrorist. People have requested. We do an episode on and who is now? My arch nemesis is [00:19:00] Sean and yes, it’s spelled like fucked, but sadly
[00:19:06] Bonnie: [00:19:06] E C H T.
[00:19:09] Karen: [00:19:09] Yes. I listened to a podcast with him on which I’m really, I’ve got PTSD from that.
[00:19:16] And it’s we want
[00:19:17] Bonnie: [00:19:17] to have that time of your life back.
[00:19:19] Karen: [00:19:19] Yeah, it’s pronounced foil. And of course his first name has to be the Shaun that’s spelled like CN, but, you know, so why don’t you describe, you know, his physical appearance?
[00:19:36] Bonnie: [00:19:36] All right. So he’s white
[00:19:42] Karen: [00:19:42] and you know what that cause that comes in later
[00:19:48] Bonnie: [00:19:48] and, um, no, he’s got kind of yellowy blonde hair and it’s long and he’s got ringlets and I, I was telling you before we got [00:20:00] on the podcast, like, I didn’t want to talk about his looks because to me.
[00:20:04] That’s an immediate giveaway of, of judgment.
[00:20:08] Karen: [00:20:08] I just think it’s a,
[00:20:10] Bonnie: [00:20:10] what
[00:20:11] Karen: [00:20:11] I disagree.
[00:20:13] Bonnie: [00:20:13] Oh, good.
[00:20:13] Karen: [00:20:13] Okay. I’m going to hide
[00:20:16] Bonnie: [00:20:16] this.
[00:20:17] Karen: [00:20:17] I would never make fun of his natural looks, but I will make fun of his affected image that he has tried to make. And that is his hair. Which he has done on purpose to look cool and instant Grammy and California and hip and music minister.
[00:20:38] And it’s the same hair I had in college because the front quote, bang area, which is still long. Is he sort of, I guess, blow dries or makes it a little straight and tuck sack
[00:20:55] Bonnie: [00:20:55] behind the ear.
[00:20:56] Karen: [00:20:56] Yeah. Yeah. So I know that hairdo, but [00:21:00] I think it’s, you know, what people choose how they choose to present themselves.
[00:21:06] If they’re charlatans, I think it’s fair game.
[00:21:11] Bonnie: [00:21:11] But you and I are saying the same thing, cause I’m not making fun of what he looks like. You know, the raw data, I’m saying the same thing you are when you make the decision to grow your hair out and have it styled and done like that. That’s an image. And to me, those decisions go along with some other
[00:21:29] Karen: [00:21:29] decisions like the jorts.
[00:21:33] Bonnie: [00:21:33] Does he wear
[00:21:34] Karen: [00:21:34] shorts? He wears tight above the knee.
[00:21:39] Bonnie: [00:21:39] Oh,
[00:21:40] Karen: [00:21:40] jorts and his bare foot, the rest of the way. Cause he hit, he cool. He free spirited.
[00:21:47] Bonnie: [00:21:47] Wait, George is Jean shorts.
[00:21:49] Karen: [00:21:49] Correct? So and jeggings.
[00:21:53] Bonnie: [00:21:53] So he’s not wearing jeggings. I’m sorry.
[00:21:55] Karen: [00:21:55] That was my first hearing. Cutoff, jeggings long [00:22:00] odd. Long George or shrunken capris.
[00:22:03] You can think of it in any way you want, but it is just the right above the knee. Tight jeans
[00:22:12] Bonnie: [00:22:12] above the knee. Yeah. Okay.
[00:22:15] Karen: [00:22:15] Would you like me to send you a picture?
[00:22:19] Bonnie: [00:22:19] You’re welcome to send me a picture. I’m just picturing, like there, there are a lot of certain. Guys who I knew in California who were Jean shorts like that, but they were below the knee.
[00:22:34] And I always thought like, Oh my gosh, when did gestalt were in CU
[00:22:39] Karen: [00:22:39] and only,
[00:22:41] Bonnie: [00:22:41] but everything is cyclical.
[00:22:43] Karen: [00:22:43] Yeah. Now the one I sent you, it’s not, they’re not as tight as another photo. Ryan found
[00:22:51] Bonnie: [00:22:51] Cod God’s sake. Okay. And you know what? They have to be tight cause he’s little.
[00:22:57] Karen: [00:22:57] Yeah, I think he is sort of little [00:23:00] and he, uh, you know, some narrows, he wears like a Seattle tank top or a cool tee shirt.
[00:23:07] He’s not about dressing up or doing anything like that. He’s
[00:23:13] Bonnie: [00:23:13] just, this look is curated.
[00:23:16] Karen: [00:23:16] Yes, very curated. And remind me to get back to that curation idea. Later I’ve so many things. So,
[00:23:27] Bonnie: [00:23:27] you know what the sad part is this picture that you sent me as clearly on the beaches in California, because you could see the mountains in the background.
[00:23:34] Karen: [00:23:34] Yep. And there’s my beach so we can start there.
[00:23:40] Bonnie: [00:23:40] Okay. Well, there’s such a haze in the background. And do you remember seeing the
[00:23:43] Karen: [00:23:43] pictures of Los
[00:23:44] Bonnie: [00:23:44] Angeles when everybody was on lockdown and the smog had lifted?
[00:23:48] Karen: [00:23:48] Yeah.
[00:23:49] Bonnie: [00:23:49] Why would we not want that?
[00:23:51] Karen: [00:23:51] Why
[00:23:51] Bonnie: [00:23:51] do we somehow get the, the information fed to us that it’s better
[00:23:57] Karen: [00:23:57] to
[00:23:58] Bonnie: [00:23:58] have all the cars on the road [00:24:00] and abuse the
[00:24:00] Karen: [00:24:00] planet?
[00:24:03] That’s not haze. That’s the Holy spirit moving.
[00:24:11] He might’ve seen this Sean Guy in the news, he’s making the rounds because he feels that there is an agenda to the government locking down singing. He’s like, you know, but in churches, what
[00:24:29] Bonnie: [00:24:29] are everywhere in churches are everywhere.
[00:24:32] Karen: [00:24:32] He. He pretty much States it like everywhere. So that’s what the interesting part is.
[00:24:41] He has a very blatant. Argument that is, um, it’s very not, it’s very superficial as in, he doesn’t have one that you have to wrestle with and look up and figure [00:25:00] out and think about, okay, it’s just plain wrong. He’s like, you know, the government, you can still go in. Home Depot. You can still go in Costco, but they don’t want us to sing.
[00:25:15] Think about that. They don’t want us to sing. I think they
[00:25:18] Bonnie: [00:25:18] don’t want you to and close proximity to one another.
[00:25:21] Karen: [00:25:21] Yeah. And you’re
[00:25:22] Bonnie: [00:25:22] not going to sing in home Depot when you’re looking for a hammer.
[00:25:26] Karen: [00:25:26] Right. And those required, and this is about gathering. The mandate is about gathering. It’s not about your fucking singing.
[00:25:36] It’s about, yeah. Getting in groups. So try st. You is Pismo beach and you can see that there are people together. They’ve got their eyes closed or they’re filming with their camera and they are not six feet apart and they, okay.
[00:25:59] Bonnie: [00:25:59] I see a [00:26:00] couple people with masks on.
[00:26:02] Karen: [00:26:02] Well, that’s they get, you know, claps. Um, and I mean,
[00:26:06] Bonnie: [00:26:06] what, what I’m saying is that tells you when this was taken.
[00:26:11] Karen: [00:26:11] Oh, for sure. In the era
[00:26:13] Bonnie: [00:26:13] of masks.
[00:26:14] Karen: [00:26:14] So that’s what we’re going to get even more into is. So he did this one, um, he did another gathering. Under the sundial bridge and Redding, because Sean Feucht is a music dude at Bethel church, which we’ve discussed before now. Bethel church has made it very clear that they aren’t behind these gatherings, which I don’t know why they are playing it like that.
[00:26:49] If that’s just a, a way I don’t know. Um, but. Sean Feucht said on a podcast I listened to the [00:27:00] constitution has no where that it would take the rights from the church. It said, you know, the church says it can’t do. I mean, constitution said it will never do that. So then they have no rights. To break up or tell us we can’t gather and sing.
[00:27:18] I’m like, see, you’re, you’re taking it wrong again. You’re just not looking at it for the plain fact of it. So Sean went to oral Roberts university and that’s the end? No,
[00:27:37] Bonnie: [00:27:37] unfortunately named. Oral Roberts
[00:27:40] Karen: [00:27:40] I now. And, uh, and he wears shorts, but after he did the gathering that he did, um, wherever Shasta County is that the health authorities warn the attendees that, you know, this [00:28:00] is unsafe, you were being unsafe.
[00:28:02] And they asked everyone who went to quarantine themselves for 14 days. Well, please
[00:28:09] Bonnie: [00:28:09] people aren’t going to do that,
[00:28:11] Karen: [00:28:11] but it’s sort of it’s the, after the fact thing, because Sean Feucht started this and let’s bring back in the whiteness, the long blonde hair, he sticks out like a light bulb, a disarray of a cue tip, and he went to.
[00:28:32] George Floyd Jr’s, Memorial and Minneapolis, and started his praise band crap. He was went into the middle of this black community that was in mourning. And that had their own DJs and music set up and he started his and the others had to turn theirs off the people from that [00:29:00] community because his speakers were louder than theirs.
[00:29:04] Bonnie: [00:29:04] That is just, that is just a reaction to one group who was being oppressed and acting like, Oh, well, no, we’re oppressed too. Me too.
[00:29:15] Karen: [00:29:15] And, or, Hey, let’s look in tagging using
[00:29:18] Bonnie: [00:29:18] them.
[00:29:19] Karen: [00:29:19] Well, uh, he, in his mind, he said, yeah, what happened was terrible. And you know, it was a crime and all this. They’re going to need me to go there.
[00:29:31] They’re going to need me to bring back God into these places, because as he said in this podcast, I’m a missionary first, you know, cause America, right. I heard a God. Um, I’m a missionary, I’m a speaker. I’m an author. I’m a musician. I’m a father. Um, you know, he does the, I am, I am, I am. And the [00:30:00] Udacity to go to that neighborhood and drown out the people from that community is disgusting.
[00:30:09] Bonnie: [00:30:09] It sounds like also he’s going where the cameras are.
[00:30:13] Karen: [00:30:13] How you know that
[00:30:15] Bonnie: [00:30:15] I don’t know
[00:30:16] Karen: [00:30:16] you are correct Dao.
[00:30:18] Bonnie: [00:30:18] It sounds like he’s trying to keep, um, an image up and, uh, keep his views up. And I don’t know, maybe monetize all
[00:30:27] Karen: [00:30:27] this possibly, possibly, possibly. So he. He goes there. And I love a foundation blog from someone it’s called among the olive trees.com.
[00:30:43] And she wrote really well. And she was like, What foil fails to get is many Apolis is not a third world country where he can exercise his toxic, save your company flex like, Ooh, bam. And she said [00:31:00] to add insult to injury. He’s censored, everyone that has respectfully asked him to read the room by deleting their comments from his Instagram or blocking them on Twitter.
[00:31:13] You know, that make me mad. Luckily I have five accounts I’m going to get in there. Mmm Hmm. And then she said a lot of the captions for his Instagram posts from Minneapolis, have the phrase, change the narrative. And he’s definitely doing that in plain sight. But what else might want to expect from the guide that published his campaign logo?
[00:31:39] Over an image of Martin Luther King, jr. And then used it to condemn abortion. So
[00:31:49] Bonnie: [00:31:49] champagne.
[00:31:50] Karen: [00:31:50] Yep.
[00:31:51] Bonnie: [00:31:51] What did he campaign for?
[00:31:52] Karen: [00:31:52] He ran for Congress.
[00:31:55] Bonnie: [00:31:55] Okay. So it is, it’s just about keeping up, uh, [00:32:00] A publicity
[00:32:01] Karen: [00:32:01] image. Yes, he is. Now he came in third out of two. No, he came in third. He’s like, I’m an outsider. I just want to serve the people.
[00:32:12] And he ran for something and S and California’s third district. That’s all I remember. He didn’t win, but he feels, again, you know, that God is missing from everything. And so he’s the one. He’s the one to bring it in. I love the olive tree woman because she called it arrogant theology and I’m like, that’s it?
[00:32:40] And we’re seeing it more and more. So, yes, not only did he run for Congress. Um, and at the same time, He’s a Trump supporter, but he has tried to do GoFund me’s so he could remodel [00:33:00] his I’m going to let you guess no dresses. You seen how his hair is? What would he try? Evelyn across the country and RV? What kind?
[00:33:11] What would a Winnebago? No.
[00:33:15] Bonnie: [00:33:15] Oh, that silver one.
[00:33:17] Karen: [00:33:17] Remodelling his Airstream trailer. He needs money and to support his ministry. So he has started these ministries, like these nonprofits that are going into dangerous places like Iraq and, and Minneapolis and, you know, bringing God and all this shit. So that’s the thing.
[00:33:43] Bonnie: [00:33:43] If you think God is missing, then maybe. It, maybe people are having God in their houses and you’re just not seeing it. Maybe God doesn’t need to be in the book, places that we all look. And it’s an okay thing for you just [00:34:00] to have him in your house. It’s like, um, it’s like those little figurines. They don’t need to be everywhere.
[00:34:06] What were they called?
[00:34:08] Karen: [00:34:08] Okay. We were just that
[00:34:10] Bonnie: [00:34:10] brand with the big heads,
[00:34:12] Karen: [00:34:12] uh, my little eyeballs, uh, precious moments. Yeah.
[00:34:18] Bonnie: [00:34:18] It’s like a precious moments. Figurine. If they’re, they’re not, they don’t need to be missing from the big stage. Have
[00:34:24] Karen: [00:34:24] them in your home. Yeah, he’s saying to me, his guide isn’t strong enough.
[00:34:31] Isn’t powerful enough. To exist right now during COVID, without him being out there without Sean being out there. You know, Sean is the one that can do all this. He gets to help God, because I guess he’s, God’s a little weak, maybe a little lazy. He’s not busy, you know, curing COVID, but he’s doing totally, there’s something that he’s [00:35:00] been trying to do, getting his face on toast and all that
[00:35:03] Bonnie: [00:35:03] he’s out there.
[00:35:04] Deputizing humans, as opposed to, you know, doing. The job of curing it.
[00:35:11] Karen: [00:35:11] So this Shawn, um, he now there are counter protests because he keeps gathering, keeps saying, we’re going to have prayer. This is a revival. And what he really. Is also doing is he is coming off of once again, the protests. So when they’re gathering, he is saying, this is a protest that they’re trying to stop church or God being in the world and being in the U S
[00:35:47] Bonnie: [00:35:47] there is the option of gathering and encouraging the prevention.
[00:35:51] Of this disease or spreading it. Why can’t you do both?
[00:35:56] Karen: [00:35:56] Why can’t you, you know, do [00:36:00] something besides gathering without mass, putting people, especially young people who might not, uh, have all their faculties developed in their brains yet. Because I think you don’t start really developing empathy until you’re 25.
[00:36:16] If they say the neurologists do and Oh, that’s interesting. So I think. You know, it’s really, that’s why I think it’s, it’s this weird form of terrorism that he’s gathering these people and that it’s seen as a protest in his mind equal to black lives matter. Like he’s just totally co-opting. That’s what I was going to say.
[00:36:45] Bonnie: [00:36:45] Well, it’s great. When, when you say you’re being oppressed, it puts you in the role of the victim.
[00:36:50] Karen: [00:36:50] Yes. So good for him.
[00:36:52] Bonnie: [00:36:52] So he’s made himself a victim,
[00:36:54] Karen: [00:36:54] right? I hope maybe his hair falls out from it. Cause it’s hard to look at. [00:37:00] Alright. So a few other things. So people are now doing counter protests when he does these gatherings and I found on Twitter, it said, um, counter protest.
[00:37:12] Esther, maybe it’s wine. I don’t know, are being louder and disrupting his concert, little spats and yelling matches with people. A Trump hat was stolen and given back, it’s getting bad there. But then he said, count as protesters have been offering clean mass to all those that approach them to argue so far.
[00:37:38] No one has taken one.
[00:37:43] I get this
[00:37:44] Bonnie: [00:37:44] there’s there is this woman who I was reading. I was reading something about this Sean Guy, just so I didn’t go into this completely ignorant. And um, her name is Susan Michael Strausser. She’s an assistant professor of [00:38:00] epidemiology at Columbia. So she
[00:38:02] Karen: [00:38:02] says like college,
[00:38:05] Bonnie: [00:38:05] she says she has empathy for the people who want to gather, especially because her husband he’s a pastor and he runs st.
[00:38:12] Luke’s Lutheran church in Manhattan. Um, his church switched to virtual services when the pandemics. Started. And then since then he started hosting outdoor services where they ensured that chairs are spaced out on the sidewalk and street, but she says not coming together is not easy, but potentially infecting someone else is potentially dangerous.
[00:38:34] And to me, it’s a no brainer. If we truly love our food, fellow human and woman, it is our duty to protect them. And she says to do anything else seems unloving to me. Why would I go against science when we’re lucky enough, privileged enough to have the internet and phones, to remain connected with people?
[00:38:52] Karen: [00:38:52] Exactly.
[00:38:53] Bonnie: [00:38:53] So not being together, the spirit too, not necessarily in person.
[00:38:58] Karen: [00:38:58] So. [00:39:00] Right. And, and that’s it like we know personally some ministers I know too, and they are both doing it virtually and virtually is sort of letting them do a few things that they might not have been able to do before also. But this guy.
[00:39:16] He’s he’s the savior he’s putting himself in that savior position and that arrogant theology. So he also got invited to Trump’s, you know, shindig of evangelists whenever he was about to be impeached. And he brought all the, um, the church leaders to his house and there’s a picture. Of some of them standing around Trump is sitting doing his usual cheesy smile and there’s more like young looking pastors standing around them.
[00:39:57] And there is. [00:40:00] One guy in back of Trump who is black with his hand on Trump’s shoulder, normal, you know, he’s right there. And they put him there for optics. And then you just see a mass of people and you see one arm coming out of nowhere. And I had to. Get and look into it. So I just sent it to you and you’ll see that there’s just this mysterious hand on them.
[00:40:31] And you have
[00:40:32] Bonnie: [00:40:32] white arm.
[00:40:33] Karen: [00:40:33] You have to trace it back.
[00:40:38] Bonnie: [00:40:38] Well, it’s connected to a big law, long thing of white
[00:40:41] Karen: [00:40:41] hair. Yep. But look how far he’s reaching. He’s not right there. His hand, his arm is over three different people next to him. Yeah. So yeah, it’s definitely an ego thing and he did a [00:41:00] tweet and he totally copied it from. Friends, because he said, when the president of the United States invites you inside the white house to worship and pray, you do it.
[00:41:15] So first he’s got to advertise it and let everyone know. And you’re just like this weird humility where’s any of this, but
[00:41:25] Bonnie: [00:41:25] I want to know where he, how does he make his money?
[00:41:28] Karen: [00:41:28] Well B from fundraising and he’s employed by the church, but he does have some music out Bonnie. So if you go to his website, you can see that there’s a cart.
[00:41:43] Up at the top and I’m like, Oh no. Are we going to be able to get jorts on here? And it’s his music albums? Well,
[00:41:54] Bonnie: [00:41:54] these little gatherings, just to me, seemed like a tour dates.
[00:41:59] Karen: [00:41:59] Yeah. [00:42:00] Yeah. But he also, there.
[00:42:02] Bonnie: [00:42:02] It’s just about money. I don’t think anything is about anything else anymore ever.
[00:42:07] Karen: [00:42:07] Yeah, I think it’s, I think it’s a ego.
[00:42:11] I, I don’t think he, I think he’s delusional that everyone needs him. So he has also recorded a song with his four kids about abortion. I mean,
[00:42:29] Bonnie: [00:42:29] what can I wish I had?
[00:42:31] Karen: [00:42:31] So, yeah, that’s awful.
[00:42:33] Bonnie: [00:42:33] I’m sorry.
[00:42:34] Karen: [00:42:34] I know, but I mean, it’s called raise our voice and you just sink, you know, the kids are being used, everyone’s being used.
[00:42:44] So they, someone interviewed during all this, cause he’s in all the papers, especially in California, that he’s being this asshole. And they have different pastors or social psychologists saying, you know, [00:43:00] he’s a Trumper, but he’s a young and charismatic one who has a huge Instagram following. So the idea is, yeah, they post these things on Instagram to show, look, this is hip, this is cool.
[00:43:16] I know. I keep saying hip and cool, which are not have been called you. You know, you can be part of this and you can vote for Trump. So this is the whole idea that they’re trying to get to. Um, and again,
[00:43:32] Bonnie: [00:43:32] and he wants to run for office. He needs somebody to back him. So he’s got a back, some other people. So it’s just.
[00:43:42] It’s just using each other.
[00:43:45] Karen: [00:43:45] Right, right. I mean, that’s the same thing. Everyone who’s supported Trump. They were guaranteed places in his cabinet if they brought so many votes and so many things. So, I [00:44:00] mean, look at where those people are today. Look at Bannon. Look at Jerry Falwell, jr. Man. They’re proven themselves.
[00:44:10] Bonnie: [00:44:10] Um, well, they were given opportunities to continue to trick people and make money from them. Oh my God. Why do we do this pumpkin?
[00:44:20] Karen: [00:44:20] Well, so here’s what I want to suggest you tell me if you’re up for this. I mean, we like to make fun of things and take down charlatans like this, but I think there could be more action with this sky.
[00:44:37] I’d like to read his. Upcoming concert dates that where he might be coming to your town and doing a gathering that is against the mandates of your town and endangering not only the people who come, but people are traveling to it. So they might come [00:45:00] from out of state or counties that have a higher incidence COVID and then of course, bring it.
[00:45:08] Mix it up in there and take it back home. So
[00:45:13] Bonnie: [00:45:13] mix it up, take it back home on the way they’re going to stop in, you know, your various fast food restaurants, possibly not wearing masks.
[00:45:23] Karen: [00:45:23] That’s right.
[00:45:24] Bonnie: [00:45:24] Infecting other people go into the bathroom and the toilet flushing it. Having particles float around in the air, which we’ve heard is the thing.
[00:45:31] And by that, I mean, pooping because being on the road makes you need to poop. Um, yeah. I’m looking at his event, upcoming dates too, and I’m glad that nothing’s happening near me because I know you’d want me to go
[00:45:45] Karen: [00:45:45] well, no, I would say stay away, but I’d like to read them out so that people can. Email call are right.
[00:45:56] The, the people, the mayor, whatever, and [00:46:00] let them know. And we can even tell them a script. And it is, there’s a guy who’s going to come and find a place to do an outdoor concert. He has, I don’t know how many followers, but it’s a lot. He has a bunch of followers. And they’re going to gather, they’re going to be outside.
[00:46:22] They’re not going to wear mass. And, you know, as city dwellers, we’d like to be protected from the sky.
[00:46:31] Bonnie: [00:46:31] Yeah, look at all the places that he’s going to be
[00:46:34] Karen: [00:46:34] so August.
[00:46:36] Bonnie: [00:46:36] So you’re going to take that silver RV all the way from Pasadena on August 23 to New Jersey on August 28.
[00:46:44] Karen: [00:46:44] Oh yeah. He’s Airstream in it. And you know, he’s going to stop anywhere on the way anywhere he feels.
[00:46:49] God tells them, and he’s going to pull out those speakers and just do him. Prompt is so anywhere on the way, but. [00:47:00] Um, or he might be flying, I don’t know, don’t care. Um, and he, on August 28th, these are all usually around four to 6:00 PM. He’ll be in New Jersey. He will be at Christian international church. So that might help narrow things down, but he’ll be outside August 29th.
[00:47:24] He will be in New York at Washington square park. Please. Okay. If
[00:47:29] Bonnie: [00:47:29] he can’t give he pooped, go say something there it’s all over.
[00:47:33] Karen: [00:47:33] Yeah. Be aware, spread this, get him shoved out and it locked down. Now of course he gets to see, say, see the government and the police they’re against God, but who cares? Um, it’s about,
[00:47:49] Bonnie: [00:47:49] that’s just what he decides to say.
[00:47:52] Karen: [00:47:52] Um, he will
[00:47:53] Bonnie: [00:47:53] be that also could mean that they are against long curly hair.
[00:47:58] Karen: [00:47:58] That’s right. [00:48:00] That’s right. Um,
[00:48:02] Bonnie: [00:48:02] and he stands for a lot more things than just God.
[00:48:05] Karen: [00:48:05] He stands for
[00:48:06] Bonnie: [00:48:06] maybe his music. Isn’t so great. Maybe people are against that, that style of music.
[00:48:13] Karen: [00:48:13] Maybe there again,
[00:48:15] Bonnie: [00:48:15] you better put on some fucking shoes.
[00:48:16] If he’s in the middle of New York,
[00:48:19] Karen: [00:48:19] stepping on them needles,
[00:48:22] Bonnie: [00:48:22] Washington square park, put your shoes on,
[00:48:28] Karen: [00:48:28] on August. 30th, he’ll be in Boston at Boston commons. Can’t believe that at 4:00 PM. So as you can see, he’s finding just these quote, popular places to be good luck there. Um, then he goes back. Oh no, he goes.
[00:48:47] To Vancouver, Washington, he’ll be at waterfront park on September 4th and Vancouver, Washington, waterfront park 6:00 PM, September six. He’s going to be [00:49:00] at Sacramento, California outside the Capitol building. So he just has to include politics in it almost as if he’s he’s threatening saying, look, it’s a protest.
[00:49:15] Look. We should be treated like black lives matters and all that shit.
[00:49:21] Bonnie: [00:49:21] I’m oppressed.
[00:49:22] Karen: [00:49:22] He ends, um, September six, Washington. Nope. Seattle Washington. Gasworks park 6:00 PM. There’s seven. Yep. September 11th, which I can only imagine all the other symbolism is going to add in there is going to be at Fort Collins, Colorado.
[00:49:45] So he yeah. Is going to do some type of military. Um, I support the troops. Uh, he’s going to have probably a new set of like cammo jorts. We don’t [00:50:00] know, um, September 12th, Colorado Springs, Colorado, which is no big deal. And that’s in the morning, but Colorado Springs. That’s his, that’s his audience. Anyway, enjoy have it.
[00:50:13] Is it
[00:50:14] Bonnie: [00:50:14] like. Earthy Conrad. Is that what you mean?
[00:50:17] Karen: [00:50:17] Well, it’s that, but Colorado Springs is also the hub. A lot of Christian that’s right. Focus on the family and all that stuff. That’s right. September 13th, he heads back to Minneapolis, Minnesota at 6:00 PM. Um, then more of
[00:50:40] Bonnie: [00:50:40] more of his important missionary work.
[00:50:42] Karen: [00:50:42] Yeah. Sorry. I mean, I just want all the black Americans to know you need this sky to bring you God, you don’t know about Jesus,
[00:50:53] Bonnie: [00:50:53] by the way. I’m looking on this events section of his website too. Every single [00:51:00] person is just a white face in this sea of people.
[00:51:03] Karen: [00:51:03] Yeah. Yeah.
[00:51:04] Bonnie: [00:51:04] White guy, white guy, white guy.
[00:51:07] Karen: [00:51:07] I
[00:51:07] Bonnie: [00:51:07] think that’s a woman.
[00:51:08] I’m not sure. Maybe that’s what? White lady. Oh my goodness.
[00:51:14] Karen: [00:51:14] All right. So September 14th, Madison, Wisconsin, September 15th, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. So, um, on the 14th and Madison, it’s going to be on the steps of the state Capitol. And then on September 15th. It will be in Milwaukee at veterans Memorial. Is he going to have a lot more?
[00:51:41] Yes, I’m sure they’re going to be everywhere, but he sees this as a growing movement. And if you go to his Instagram and sort of looks like this growing said to me that more people are quote to [00:52:00] me getting bored. Um, and they’re like, ah, let’s get out of here. And so they go to this beach, then they baptize them in the water and they’re all touching each other and dunking them and people in the comments are like, yay, Jesus’s name will be prey.
[00:52:20] And you know, I’m so mad by what you’re doing. God’s moving all these things that we’ve heard for 2000 years. God has always been moving. Just depends. Who wants to say it? Um,
[00:52:39] Bonnie: [00:52:39] well, um, here, I’m gonna, I’m going to divert the conversation for a minute to the all-important capitalism of our country. Um, why don’t you take a guest with me and you know, this is one of my favorite games to play.
[00:52:53] When you put the name, Sean, Feucht into an eBay search. How many products do you?
[00:52:58] Karen: [00:52:58] Well, he does [00:53:00] have. He did coauthor five books, even though he calls himself an author, um, we can get into what that probably means. And, um, I don’t know, you tell me
[00:53:15] Bonnie: [00:53:15] 30.
[00:53:16] Karen: [00:53:16] Oh, so
[00:53:18] Bonnie: [00:53:18] there’s a CD. There’s another CD. There’s another CD and another CD.
[00:53:24] Um, and some more CDs then there’s like you said, the bookie coauthored. And then it’s music and another book.
[00:53:33] Karen: [00:53:33] Yeah. I’m wondering if he’s on preacher sneakers. I doubt it because he does the barefoot thing. What’s preachers.
[00:53:42] Bonnie: [00:53:42] Remind me, is it a website?
[00:53:44] Karen: [00:53:44] It’s a, yeah. It pretty much shows what pastors are wearing and how much it costs,
[00:53:53] Bonnie: [00:53:53] right?
[00:53:54] Karen: [00:53:54] Yeah. But there’s a,
[00:53:55] Bonnie: [00:53:55] Rizzy everywhere shoes.
[00:53:58] Karen: [00:53:58] I don’t think so. [00:54:00] So his Instagram, he has something where he’s talking to the camera and his hand goes up and down like a karate chop, like young pastors do. And he’s like, thank you for your extravagant generosity. You’re helping launch this movement. And in new cities, across America, every dollar donated.
[00:54:24] Well, raise up a banner of worship, prayer and revival in our land check for new cities and new dates. And he always posts things about it’s time to be, uh, to have courageous Christianity and to quote, fill the street. It’s like now don’t feel streets. Don’t don’t do any of this, please.
[00:54:55] Bonnie: [00:54:55] The other thing is, I mean, be a Christian, all you want just simmer down [00:55:00] about it.
[00:55:01] Karen: [00:55:01] I think he, I think it is a menace to America’s health and I’m totally serious about that. You know, one of the ones he held in San Diego, which may be is that his Mo beach state officials estimated 5,000 people showed up. Oh, my God. So, and that’s
[00:55:25] Bonnie: [00:55:25] no Pismo beach is kind of new, the middle.
[00:55:28] Karen: [00:55:28] Yeah. I don’t know.
[00:55:28] That could be another one,
[00:55:30] Bonnie: [00:55:30] but yeah, that we’re, we’re looking through, we’re looking at one another through really suspicious eyes. And rather than seeing one another as human beings, we’re seeing each other as germ and virus spreaders. This is what somebody at one of his events said, and she says, I don’t think that’s healthy.
[00:55:47] Um, I don’t think that helps us come together to fight a pandemic. It just polarizes people. And that masks show the fear of the virus, but it’s kind of like, God, it’s, it’s a respect, not a [00:56:00] fear. Why can’t we just respect this virus? Why do we have to name it? Fear
[00:56:05] Karen: [00:56:05] the anti-intellectualism. Oh, but thank goodness.
[00:56:09] Like he does have really cool pictures on his Instagram so that people really love it. It’s he and his beautiful wife and Birkenstocks sitting on the back of their Airstream. So. The gram I’m telling you. I know.
[00:56:23] Bonnie: [00:56:23] And they’re super cute kids.
[00:56:25] Karen: [00:56:25] Yep. Yep. So if you happen to spot a reflective silver Airstream, rolling into your town, like a, a warmed up Petri dish, you know, you need to contact your authorities, run inside, lock the door and put a diaper on your face.
[00:56:48] Because, yeah, man, the shit’s coming out all sides. Thank you so much for recommending this guy, but I think I’m going to stay [00:57:00] on this guy’s ass for a while. This one really pisses me off. Cause he’s bringing his physical harm to people. So
[00:57:10] Bonnie: [00:57:10] I know it’s just, it’s just building it. So they come.
[00:57:13] Karen: [00:57:13] Yeah. Yeah, he’s giving them
[00:57:15] Bonnie: [00:57:15] venues.
[00:57:16] So thank you for, uh, any rating and. Subscribing and reviewing that you want to do too
[00:57:25] Karen: [00:57:25] and sharing and doing all that. Yeah.
[00:57:28] Bonnie: [00:57:28] Cause it’s nice to have a community.
[00:57:30] Karen: [00:57:30] That’s right. So we’re going to be gathering in every
[00:57:34] Bonnie: [00:57:34] town online, safely away from one another.
[00:57:38] Karen: [00:57:38] We’re traveling. I fixed up a station wagon. I’ll pick you up.
[00:57:46] I’m going to be,
[00:57:48] Bonnie: [00:57:48] I’ll be in the way back.
[00:57:50] Karen: [00:57:50] I’m missing a toe. It’s going to be bright. Um, bye bye.
[00:57:57] Bonnie: [00:57:57] Have a good week.
[00:57:58] Karen: [00:57:58] Um,
[00:57:59] Bonnie: [00:57:59] you’re [00:58:00] missing a toe.
We love letters. We love them. And reviews. We’re selfish and run on interaction.
Thanks for being vulnerable and making us laugh at and with you. Keep them coming!
This week we hear about Catholic smudge marks and Pastor Gary.
We’re also trying to get transcriptions going. Yes, they WILL improve.
Karen and Bonnie
It’s Deconversion Therapy. Is it welcome time? Oh, sorry.
Deconversion therapy. The letter sewed where you write us letters about all the terrible, embarrassing things that happened to you in the church. And we read them and laugh at you with you for you. All of this for you, because it was painful for you. We don’t care. Um, so I’m the parent. Yep. And this is Bonnie and make sure to please subscribe and rate, and I’d really love some new reviews.
Even if our old reviewers get on someone else’s phone. I just like seeing things written about us. Um, it helps, you know, Uh, boost boost star morale, because right now we are hibernating and I haven’t talked to anyone and usually. When I walk around, it’s just people following me, telling me you’re beautiful.
You’re gorgeous. And now I don’t get that anymore. Can I please tell you, uh, similar to what you just joked about? That happened to me once with a friend who I was with, not me. I was there. You weren’t. I think I was okay. It was in Los Angeles. I was on an escalator with my roommate who was a model. And we were on the down,
we were on the down escalator and some guy was going on the up escalator and he sees her and just says, you’re beautiful. And I was like, wow, that’s just the most fun thing to be standing next to too.
I just go for twins. Oh, wow. Um, let’s see. Also find us on Instagram. Our Instagram followers are great, and if you post memes, I will steal them. People send them to me and the DMS or on our Facebook group, which is really fun. Bonnie’s been in there a lot. Uh, I will pop in and steal the memes. So that’s it send in your funny stories and how about you start with one Bonnie?
All right. This is one that I think is really interesting. At least I I’ve skimmed these, but not read them. So, but I really enjoy the fact that, um, The person after it says, here’s my story says, please don’t reveal any names, read all the names, all of them. I know, spell them for clarity. I was at a school attached to a church that sounds just like us.
And then it says, which we later found out was a cult. And what grade do you find that out in. Um, you get your period. You’ve realized, Oh, this is a cult I’ve grown up. Um, one day the principal of my school, who was also the pastor’s wife called a meeting of all students to the sanctuary. We then proceeded to have a two hour intervention, which she claimed was for purifying the school from evil.
During this time, every single student, except for me and my friend, uh, went to the podium and repented before everyone for their sins. I remember this one, tiny seventh grader went up and started sobbing because he didn’t give his all in his.
That’s so sweet and said, can you imagine how many times I would be up there? I couldn’t even find my homework. I would say did SAS. Oh my God. But with you and your homework, I remember the meanest teacher, we had implemented some kind of system with you where you had to write it down in a book. Yes. Yes. I know.
Yeah. Just kind. Everything I owned was in lost and found. I was the only kid doing my work at an angle because my desk wouldn’t shut from all my crap. And then.
My teacher had to like invent a little pad of paper where she’d write down the assignments and initial it, because between school and home, I just walked through some kind of supernatural that sucked everything out of my brain and I’d show up and people would like, know what they’re doing? And I’m like, what?
What has to happen again? Three found that I had add, but anyway, let’s go back. I remember with you, with you and the assignment book, uh, others of us were like, well, we wanted assign that look too. I’m sure the teacher was like fine. I’ll initial. Okay. All of your crap here, right? But that was good. And I know that you’re going to be jealous now, but now I am a themed and I always have been about writing things down.
Oh, me too now. Yeah. But yeah, I really took it to heart. And when I see people not writing things down, I’m like, how do you edit? You get shit done. And what are you just remember everything and check things off and feel victorious even more important. Yeah. Okay. Back to the letter. Sorry, wait. But back to lost and found thing.
When I was in acting school, I had this awesome blue sweatshirt and there was an afternoon class and a morning class. And I was in the morning and I lost my sweatshirt and I couldn’t believe it. And I was hanging around one day after the afternoon. People started and here comes this guy wearing my sweatshirt and I said, Where’d you find that sweatshirt, you goes, I didn’t find it.
It’s mine. And I’m like, no, I’m pretty sure that’s mine. Cause it has the toothpaste stain right on the boots that I had gotten. It’s so easy. Reluctantly takes it off and hands it back to me. And that person was. Short, ah, nevermind. No, it wasn’t anybody who we know today by their name. Okay. So this letter is almost over, I’m sorry, no name.
It says other students apologize for not being kind to their mothers or doing harmless pranks. Pranks are never harmless by the way. That’s right. Um, they’re always awesome though. Um, it was one of the strangest moments in my life. I bet. So, yeah, but you know what else this person is talking about? Like the whole going up to the podium.
I am reading a book right now and I won’t tell you whose book it is because we’re going to talk about it on a subsequent podcast, but he talks about being saved multiple times. Yeah. Other people have been talking about that. And I, I thought it just happened. No, you rededicate your life. Yeah. But they talk about it being saved because he specifically says I was worried that it didn’t taste, right.
Yeah. Yeah. I get that. Um, then baptize multiple times too. That is a waste of water. Um, But also like this letter, you know, the whole idea idea of really, especially when you’re young, trying to find every little sin, because you’re sure. You know that it’s in there. So you’re like digging and finding things that aren’t even bad.
They’re just, you know, the whole, like not respecting my mother, like, you know, what if your mother is an asshole or a bitch or, you know, and it’s like, well, I’ve really got to do it. Gotta dig deep. And I can tell you who from our school’s mother was. Oh, Yeah, leave that to everybody’s imagination for all the zinger people.
He knows our listeners, they know who we are. Um, but there was, there was tremendous use of the guilt in our Baptist day school. Yeah. I told you, I told you about them. One that sticks out with me when a frog in a jar of formaldehyde was broken. And the whole place, our sixth grade classroom stunk and to inhale, it hurt your throat.
And I remember when we got to leave, I said, Oh my gosh, I’m so glad to get out of here. Cause my throat hurts so bad. And then the next day the teachers, uh, prepared a fake conversation to have in front of me. Saying? Well, there was one student yesterday who commented on how the room didn’t smell good, which was very unkind considering that some of us have to stay here all day.
And so it worked on me. That’s just, and that’s such a nothing thing. Yeah. But look what stuck with these centers. Sixth grade. I know. Well, Frog. I remembered the one kid. He was younger than us. He was a real glue eater and he was crazy. So we had the little, there’s like a carport. Opening at our, our day school.
And so the parents would drive up and, you know, the kid would jump in the car and we had patrols, which I was one. I want everyone to know I had patrols and I would do patrol duty. And that just says, Hey car, come up. Hey, kids stop and narrows this wild little kid. And he would always say, can I go now?
Like, Oh yeah, me sarcastically, if he could walk, but he got given the punishment. He obviously at ADHD, given the punishment to write, I will not, you know, do this or that. And they’re like, you need to run the chalkboard, like Bart Simpson on paper. Um, so he wrote one page and then photocopied. Badly five other pages that were like crooked and you know, old and all that.
And he brought them in. I’m like, ah, our school wasn’t Gary. That was not the point of the exercise. And today. He runs Apple. Okay. Um, all right, Tim Apple. All right. The Apple store, no name from blank. Blank, state blank, blank. That’s right. We’ll just put your name on Instagram. Okay. This one is from Chris, AKA marshy now, and hi, Chris.
I know who you are. Hey lady, I’m getting a kick out of catching up on podcasts during this Covance stuff. So let me just say thanks for providing some laughs. I do have a Catholic story to share with you with some caveats, namely. I’m not Catholic. So it’s a reporter’s diary. It’s it’s a I’ll tailing. Um, first let me say, I grew up super Fundy.
I think we look like Mennonites, but with the exciting soul crushing doctrine of Westland Methodism, as in, wait, what did Mennonites look like? Long dresses and long hair and the little delicate, um, yarmulke thing with the string saying, no, that can’t be right. We’re going to get in trouble. Well, it’s not a yamaka.
It’s a little Barnetti thing. Delicate. It’s like very little crochet. They can be crocheted. I think that’s okay. Oh, Oh. Oh. Like the thing that maybe covers your ears, even now I’m thinking of a snowcap yeah. Yeah. I think, um, witness, so almost Amish, but shops at hobby lobby. Okay. Um, so they opened, by the way, I don’t know.
They essential. Yeah, they’re essential. Where else are you going to get wooden letters? Okay. Think we look like Mennonites, but with the exciting soul crushing doctrine of West land Methodism, as in Christian perfection slash two works of grace. I’ll look that one up slash salvation plus sanctification with a touch of charismatic as in getting the spirit, but not speaking in tongues because that’s obviously demon possession.
Okay. Thanks. Bye. And a complete horror of the outside world. We had our own school, college camp, you name it. And we did not interact with folks outside our church except for unsaved family. So at least they were loving to their family. No, they did not say that. They said no, no, no. They said they interacted with them.
They didn’t shun their unsaved family at least. True. So that’s nice, but the interaction, we don’t have the details on. Um, all right. I see a fair teacher to did it. Which is how I wound up not ever meeting a Heden Catholic until I was about 23 years old. Today, this, this life event wouldn’t be a big deal.
I would laugh it off and apologize. But at 23 years old, the submissive easily intimidated girl, it was a life altering event. Now you imagine that and like, how do you identify a Catholic. Well, eyeliner
now, spaghetti straps. They all have perfect. Just forgive them. I know. I just remember seeing all the Catholic girls that, you know, we’d run into at the grocery store and I’d noticed, say I’d like the black coal eyeliner. Really? Yeah. They probably put it on after school, but nonetheless, the girls in junior high school used to take a lighter to their eyeliner and set it on fire to get it all melty so they could get a really good glop.
That’s what the term smokey I came from. No,
it’s great. Okay. Now long ago in the olden days, Protestants acknowledged lint. That should not be the same as what’s in your belly button, but we did not actually take part in denying ourselves for 40 days, mostly because we were so spiritual. We denied ourselves 365 days all the time. Have you ever done lint?
I think it’s a great idea. Yeah. Every time you reach for a peanut or something that you deny yourself, it’s a reminder of why you’re doing it. I would just be like this year. I’m not eating peanut for the good example.
This year, I’m giving up. I’m sending my dog away for 40 days. Um, my God, that’d be sad. Give up your oat milk and it’s not oatmeal milk, but thanks a lot. Yeah. It’s not pods people. They’re great. They froth really well. Alright. Back to the letter. However, I have noticed recently that more Protestant Protestants seem to be getting into the lint Ash.
Wednesday thing. Question Mark. Yes. Anyway, I moved away to another state right out of Bible college and ran into my first. Oops and ran into my very first Catholic Mike was an engineer on a job site I worked at and we all had to wear hats and steel toed boots, et cetera, with lots of dust around. So it wasn’t uncommon for guys to get kind of dirty.
Oh, no. Oh no. The smear of dirt on his head. And we were having a budget meeting. I was so nervous for him. I kept tilting my head, trying to catch his attention, gesturing to my story. Okay. To save this poor man, , I’m giving a big presentation with a giant spear of mud on its face.
Finally, one of the admins pulled me aside and asked if I was okay, because it looked like I was fighting off a bee or something and explain that. No, in fact, Mike was the one looking stupid and I was trying to save him. She cracked up and told me he was Catholic and today was Ashwin stay. He in fact was being spiritual and deep.
Thinking about his mortality. I was completely stunned and shocked that one, I hadn’t met a cath like any didn’t seem to be evil
too. I was too dumb to put together the Ash Wednesday ashes on the face, despite years of ease. A C E curriculum and four years of Bible college, including two semesters of college and worth and world religion. Oh my God. Just like us. I mean, we had Ash Wednesday for sure. It was on every calendar and we had world religion and Colts.
Not that we ever studied anything. We just listened to the teacher talk. Right. That would, this is so great because the same thing happened to me when I worked at Macy’s when I was 21, like more than one person came in with that on their forehead. And I was so flipped out, like what’s happening? Why are they all doing it?
Yeah. It more than one. Yeah, it does look cultish. Yeah, and I, I had met Catholics I’m sure, but maybe I hadn’t been exposed to them on Ash Wednesday. Oh, my gosh. It was, it was, uh, it was one of them, the funniest things to realize what was going on, but not like hers. Stupid. Mike, she put in parentheses.
Catholicism is a call FYI, not a world religion. So the admin did, in fact, dismiss me from the meeting with a quote, bless your heart. This was North Carolina. So you know what that means? And I hidden in the bathroom for the rest of the day. I worked out of another office for about two weeks because I just couldn’t be around him without dying inside.
I’ve moved all over the Southeast and my adult life. And let me just say, after living in Louisiana, for sure. Four years. I have met many more Catholics and I’ve learned to love fish on Fridays and fat, Tuesday and drinking. So Catholics have brought a lot to my life, including etiquette on Ash Wednesday.
Thanks for that podcasts ladies. Oh my gosh. That’s awesome. It is so, so we, um, hung around. Uh, when we were at a different town in Tennessee, the first friends we made were Catholics. So they introduced us to a bunch of Catholics. And then the next thing you know, we’re going to like all the events, cause they have a chili cook off and a wine tasting and like people just drink and drink and it’s so fun, but we knew that it was bad when like my youngest daughter was still.
Sitting on my lap, still in diapers. And we’d hang out with our Catholic friends and there’d be beer bottles on the table. And she grasped it up on my lap with her chubby legs and tried to balance and was wobbly and grabbed a beer bottle. Got the bottom of the stabilizer. Yeah, got the bottom of her shirt and pulled it up to cover the cap of the beer bottle.
Cause she’d seen how we busted the cast and many times I’m like, Oh, she might not be learning the right things from me. Um, yeah, I learned the Catholics, but speaking of limp, remember that one, lint that the Pope quit. I’m like quit. What is job? Yes. The one before this one was just like, eh, John. Oh, well, that’s a lamp for you.
Well, there’s a friend of mine who was with, uh, some of the members of her family and it was Christmas Eve. And just true to what you were saying. They had been drinking. And it was not, uh, you know, not unusual for them to go to midnight mass on Christmas Eve. So they went where they thought they were going to meet up with their dad to go to mass.
And they walked in and they were giggling and everything. And the other people weren’t quite as jovial and they had accidentally gone into an AA meeting. Yeah. Um, they turned around. They left, but on, on major holidays like that, they have like, um, AA meetings around the clock in certain places. And so yeah, they call it like meeting Palooza or something like that.
So if anybody’s having a problem at any time of day, they have somewhere to go. That’s a good idea. It’s not church. No. And it reminds me of the girls Scouts setting up, you know, their table outside the, um, the cannabis shops. You just have it available. There’s some marketing, Christian marketing, people that tell you about that.
Oh, we have, we have one more. Okay. Uh huh. Amy says it’s okay to her to use her name. I wish she said, Amy said it’s not okay to use. So she says high up, which by the way, and now I’m just interrupting the letter after the first one. Yeah. We have found fault already there. I went over to England and that’s how a lot of people would greet you with HYA.
What. Yeah, no. Yes. Hi. Yeah. Anyhow, she says, hi, a 28 year old center living in New York city here. My story, you can just say you’re living in New York. We would understand the rest. Oh, my story is about the pastor at the super conservative evangelical Presbyterian church. I went to growing up. My main beef with him happened during my senior year of Christian high school.
When I was applying to join the national honor society, you were required to get a recommendation from your pastor in order to be accepted me being a 17 year old kid, putting off, getting his letter of recommendation till the very last minute. Apparently he was so upset that it had to be a rush job.
Really, all he had to do is write one damn paragraph for me that he actually wrote, Oh my God, that he didn’t think I qualified to be accepted. Guess what? I didn’t get accepted. I never did get into the national honor society. Thanks a lot, pastor Gary, you jerk. I know. I could go down the long list of how much church has ruined the intellectual and career.
Potential of so many people. Okay. But yeah, but you know what? I laugh and stead letters. Yeah. Yeah. But, but listen to what we’re talking about. Our sixth grade teacher, this guy, pastor Gary, they all take it on themselves. Like these children shouldn’t be acting like children. They should be accommodating me.
It’s just. Shitty shitty grownups. Anyway, um, my family left the church a few years later because the elders refused. I used to change with the times and insisted on only singing Gerges from the hymnal, no youth program and no intention of improving that. Pastor Gary actually sent an angry letter to my sister, even my parents insulting her and saying how disappointed he was, that she left the church.
Wow, pastor Gary. And I hope that’s, I don’t know if I hope it’s his real name or not. Cause I just want to tell pastor Gary to go. Yeah, something that’s right. This is real name or Twitter handle. Thank you. Hey, pastor Gary, sit on it and spin. Hmm that’s uh, well, yeah, he might get that one. Well, my family was.
Still attending that church. There was a whole debacle where he pissed all the old people off because he said life sucks in one of his sermons, pastor Gary, um, everyone freaked out about it and he had the issue, Paul, but yeah. Yeah. I love that this letter is kind of more like bashing pastor Gary, and I’m fine with that.
Um, Everyone else in the family are still devout Christians. And occasionally I hear that they quote, worry about my face. Um, I’m happily long gone from that life. Even though back in the day, I did lift my hands in worship and sobbed at church retreats for no reason other than everyone else was doing it.
How could you expect me to stay in it after going to college for musical theater at a secular school? Right. It was a four year long, big gay romp, and it was glorious. I was so thrilled to find your podcast. It comforts me to know I’m not alone. Let us pray. Awesome. And I hate pastor Gary. I know, but that’s a substitute for all of the people who were grown ups, who were shitting on us as children.
Exactly. And it happens so much in the church. It’s unbelievable. Yeah. And guess what else? I was the most compliant kid you’d ever hope to have and they still shat upon me. Yep. Same here. Yeah. Yeah. And it was like, yeah. Any little thing you do, that’s it? Yeah. Anything. Yep. And then meanwhile, they’re all off bang in each other and smoking.
So send us more of your pastor, Gary shit, head teacher story. Go ahead. Maybe we all have an episode on just. Instead of these ship piles that are usually big name people, just some pastors who are real assholes. Thank you guys as usual for listening and do the whole rate and subscribe thing that Karen explains is important.
And we will be looking at the people who are asking. Looking to get into the Facebook group because that’s a fun group with nice conversation and a welcoming bye. And that’s Bonnie telling me to get in there and do my part of the task. No, it’s not. I’m the letter in her, but that was my way of saying if we haven’t let you in it.
Just because, um, we know like you that’s right. Alright. Well, thanks and have a great week and VV, not a shift pile.
How do we keep up with the hellishness of the last week? We push our other recorded episodes down the pike and record fresh because there’s JUST. SO. MUCH.
Don’t forget to send your funny, true stories to us OR racist crap you learned in church. https://deconversiontherapypodcast.com/contact/
Jews for Jesus. Bonnie and Karen spat over their right to exist.
As someone of 1% Jewish DNA, Karen explains the Jewish faith, especially Hasidic Jews for which she watched many YouTube videos. They both loved the Netflix series Unorthodox, and now know A. Lot.
Don’t forget to write us your true, funny stories about growing up in church or the synagogue.
We sent out a call for listeners to ask Bonnie and Karen questions. On this episode, Bonnie goes into her deconversion, plus they both discuss how and when they “came out” to people about their beliefs, as well as if religion is needed in the world.
We get weekly requests to cover Bethel Church in Redding, CA. You probably know it by the story months ago of a toddler who died and the church believed she would be resurrected although days kept passing. Or perhaps it was from their outspokenness about conversion therapy for gays.
Karen tells about a woman who left their School of Supernatural Ministry, plus all the disasters that have happened with the students and church taking over the town of Redding.
Bonnie ends it with the best info on the church out there…Trip Advisor reviews.
Stay well and inside, everyone!
Check out our new birth control sleeve at http://www.deconversiontherapypodcast.com/shop
We must join the professionals like us and discuss the COVID-19. Of course, our profession is religious whack-a-doodles, so that’s what we’re gonna do. Here’s some of the crap religious leaders are hawking.
Seems it’s not a good time for Bonnie to have stopped drinking! She has no tennis to watch, either!
If you’re self-quarantining, what else do you have to do than to listen to useless podcasts.
We cover Jim Bakker and the FDA coming after him, the New Zealand pastor who preaches tithing Christians will be okay, Bethel Church, and our own former pastor.
Stay safe everyone! We’ll see you on the other side.
*FYI–We are suspending our Patreon support campaign until this whole pandemic is resolved and people are back on their feet.
In this Lettersode, Amanda moves from Japan to land in Louisiana where she went to a Vacation Bible School that’s theme that summer was…Japan.
Madison was taught dinosaurs didn’t exist. She grew her hair long, was pure and sweet and sheltered. She tells about being traumatized when going to another church’s Bible camp.
Then Jen comes in at the end with a crazy Ouija board story that leave Karen and Bonnie wondering about the unexplained.
We’re back! And who better to kick off the year than with the slickest performer of all–Carmen?
Rock, Jazz, Funk, or starring in his own films, he does it all. Even medical anesthesia is no match for him!
We’ve missed you. Or was that just another one of Bonnie’s lies? She loved to start rumors in college.
If you grew up in the 80s and 90s, you went to one of Carmen’s free concerts. He filled them up. Karen was even a counselor.
In this episode, we describe the man, the legend. Or we read how he describes himself. Add in some videos about how he’s A2J–Addicted to Jesus, and loves to box, and we start seeing how he has the swag to not only refuse a job with the mafia, but names the people he refused.
Don’t forget to print up one of these non-working clock faces and bring to his concert.
We just don’t get this guy.
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There’s cheeto and toe tattoos, then on with the show.
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Karen and Bonnie go through the lives and miracle healing powers of Kathrine Kuhlman and Benny Hill, no, Hinn. Are people really getting cured of cancer and broken backs and whatnot and various sundries? Why are all the people falling backwards when they get healed? And how in the world are these wheeler healers getting their own television shows when we don’t have one?
Karen starts out with one of the best-known faith healers, Katherine Kuhlman. You might have never heard of her, but she birthed a whole litter of these guys. She was elegant and magnetic and also talked in a creepy voice.
She had her share of scandals, but we must say, being a divorced woman evangelist in the 60s with your own show isn’t bad.
Bonnie gets in to someone who followed Kuhlman, idolized her, studied her–Benny Hinn. You’ve seen him on television. He’s the one people roll their eyes at when he makes a swath of people fall out on stage.
Hinn got caught with televangelist Paula White a few years ago while in Italy. They
denied it. Then they didn’t. Then they downplayed it. We don’t care. At least the Kardashians admit their vice.
Hinn’s nephew, Costi Hinn, has come out with a book. It’s mainly for Christians, but it says all the things most people know. This is about money and power.
Mentioned on podcast: Josiah Hesse’s Vice article about Jim Bakker.
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We’re playing The Graceful Atheist podcast on the show today. A few months ago, David interviewed Karen. His podcast questions are smart and thought-provoking. We hope you enjoy it!
You can find some great interviews at https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/.
You can support the show at https://www.patreon.com/deconversion.
We’ve launched our Patreon so listeners can support this new year of our podcast. Go to https://www.patreon.com/deconversion to see our levels of support. The price of a Pumpkin Spice Latte a month would help so much, and we offer the same amount of sugar and fluff.
This week we start out with some slut-shaming from the elderly and a hint for a new episode we’re working on. Then we reprise our Kanye episode which includes our medical expertise. Enjoy!
Here’s Bonnie’s slut-shame thing:
Karen and Bonnie discuss Kanye West’s Sunday Services going on around the country.
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Karen and Bonnie begin by trying to figure out what a Wonderwall is, reminisce about Saturday Night Live’s Shweddy Balls skit, and discuss writings on bathroom walls before getting down to professionally analyzing Kanye West.
Kanye’s new church services are in Calabasas, CA to Detroit to wherever he flies his choir to next. It’s a music-only service, which kills Bonnie. And he doesn’t even do Golddigger! It’s all leading up to his new album release: Jesus is King.
They discuss Kanye’s bi-polar, liposuction, and criticism. Plus, something we didn’t know is the Kardashian’s previous involvement in another California church.
All we can say is #FreeKanye, because we feel like we’re watching a car wreck in slo mo.
We’re taking some time to improve the show and replaying some of our favorite episodes.
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We RIFF on some memories of urine and being snipers before we let you loose on an episode we released on Christmas Eve of 2018.
Bonnie and Karen read their first submitted story by a listener! The subject is how Christianity shames females into thinking all sexual “sins” are their fault, even when they didn’t participate!
They discuss how rapey ducks can be and how it’s always the female duck who is the “stumbling block” to the “thought life” of said dicks, we mean ducks.
Karen recounts having to forgive a fellow missionary when he confesses he thought about her while masturbating, and Bonnie asks the question we all want to know: Was Fonzie having sex with all those girls he brought to his apartment above the Cunningham’s garage on Happy Days?
Bonnie and Karen shepherd you through the religious obstacles of Thanksgiving dinner. We throw in a history lesson, sprinkle it with some rat urine, and then send you into the lion’s den. Good luck, Champ.
How did this story of violent death and floating babies turn into the cutest story in the Bible, with cute toys being given to children at Christmas?
Bonne and Karen tackle the issues that float to the top with this fantastical story they both thought was real growing up.
Kanye’s back with more of his Christian humility and putting others first. We’ve got Paula White receiving an official White House position. And it all wraps up with the bombshell accusations about sexual misconduct of comedian John Crist. Never a week off around here.
We get Kanye out of the way by talking about how upset he is that he can’t do math for Forbes.
Paula, Paula, Paula. Paula White is in the news again because Trump gave her an official posting. NowThis made a video of her clips. America, you in trouble girl.
John Crist is a snarky Christian comedian who actually has some good bits, moslty because he wasn’t afraid of poking fun at Christian stereotypes. This week, a Christian news outlet broke the news of his sexual misconduct, leading to him canceling his tour and Netflix canceling his special.
Thanks for all the letters recently. We love reading them.
Have you NOT subscribed? Really? Tapping that button is just too much of a strain on the digits? Come on, help a poddy mouth out.
This month’s Lettersode went sidewayyyyys. It wasn’t the letter writers’ fault. We recorded in the morning and were much more chipper, and sometimes things in our path get destroyed.
Our letters from Bethany, Fred, and Brad were awesome. We have curse words, Gary Smalley, and more Multi-level marketing fun.
If you’ve braved coming to see show notes, your reward is the picture of the nipple foot Bonnie sent me.
Please support the podcast by visiting (that means buying) our SHOP. Plus, sign up fro Audible using our code www.Audibletrial.com/Deconversion . It’s the holidays. Treat your self to more hours of entertainment.
No, we did not make that word up. But sadly, someone else did.
This week Karen and Bonnie share their memories of Halloweens past, when the church hadn’t upped the ante on hijacking it for Fall Festivals and Hallelujah Nights. Or JesusWeens, a concept that didn’t make it far out of the gate, but far enough for it to still be out there.
Here’s Karen and Bonnie as Miss America (your own face isn’t good enough, Karen), and a Gypsy.
Here’s another of us as Pinky Tuscadero, the slutty girlfriend of Fonzie, and a tipsy Hawaiian-themed wedding mother-of-the-Bride.
There are two great letters from listeners who had to celebrate Halloween at church, hints on how to survive waterboarding, and these tacky Christian-themed Halloween items.
And here’s that scary-ass haunted tour we mention where you have to sign off on the possibility of pulling out your own teeth.
We’d love to hear any stories of this Halloween, past ones, or see some costumes. The laughing is a two-way street.
Don’t forget we have a SHOP. We’d love you to,…shop there.
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Bonnie and Karen were ready to skewer everything and everyone connected to hateful Westboro Baptist, with their God Hates Fags picket lines. But then they read Unfollow by Megan Phelps-Roper who left the church (her entire family) and has now come out with the book.
Despicable? Yes. Hurtful? Of course. But with hearing and reading from the granddaughter of the founder of the church, we understand the psychology more.
We also highlight the Equality House, a home purchased across the street form Westboro Baptist that has become an LBGT museum and is painted like a huge rainbow flag.
Once again, we learned a lot from this episode. It hurts our egos to keep learning like this.
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It’s just a little fun on the side. Sell some oils or woven baskets, make some pocket money. Of course, that’s not how it ends up at all. Multi-Level marketing companies are mainly Christian/Mormon run–Mary Kay, DoTerra Oils, Pampered Chef, Advocare, and many more. The secret hidden in plain sight is that 75% of people (ok, women) who join MLMs don’t make money. And about 50% LOSE money.
Bonnie and Karen discuss which MLMs are religious-based, why, and what the hell is going on.
They try to keep their usual light manner, but it gets hard when so many mothers are getting shafted by something that is supposed to empower them.
Here’s some of the podcasts we’ve found that are Christian/Mormon run:
LaBella Baskets and Gifts
Mary Kay 0.2% (two tenths of one percent) are in Cadillacs.
Damsel in Defense
First Fitness Nutrition
Mary and Martha
Daisy Blue Naturals
Close to my Heart
Art and Soul
Red Rock Traditions
Grace and Heart
DoTerra–From Young Living
Eclipse Candle Company
Taste of Gourmet
A big thanks to the podcast The Dream by Jane Marie for covering this topic in depth.
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Listener letter time. Weird, quirky, and hilarious. Bonnie and Karen read from their virtual stack. If you’ve been holding onto a humorous story to do with religion or church, send it in HERE.
You know how preachers think everything is witchcraft these days, including eye-rolling. Protect yourself by dousing yourself in Axe body spray.
Then we hear a story about preacher’s kids and PGs, preacher’s grandkids. Does the line of celebrity ever end?
There’s a story on how to pick out a homeschooler from a mile away, plus potential jobs for when they graduate.
We finish up with a letter about a bass-playing Jesus.
Please support the podcast by visiting our SHOP or getting a free month and book at audibletrial.com/deconversion.
Karen and Bonnie discuss Kanye West’s Sunday Services going on around the country.
We Have a SHOP. Check it out and help support our podcast.
Karen and Bonnie begin by trying to figure out what a Wonderwall is, reminisce about Saturday Night Live’s Shweddy Balls skit, and discuss writings on bathroom walls before getting down to professionally analyzing Kanye West.
Kanye’s new church services are in Calabasas, CA to Detroit to wherever he flies his choir to next. It’s a music-only service, which kills Bonnie. And he doesn’t even do Golddigger! It’s all leading up to his new album release: Jesus is King.
They discuss Kanye’s bi-polar, liposuction, and criticism. Plus, something we didn’t know is the Kardashian’s previous involvement in another California church.
All we can say is #FreeKanye, because we feel like we’re watching a car wreck in slo mo.
You can also listen to us on:
The Quiverfull Movement is all about letting God give you as many babies as possible to build up the Army of God. Think, the Duggars.
We want to make 2 things clear at the get-go:
Karen and Bonnie let you in on what they’d name their kids if they had a bundle of them. Then they discuss the origin and widespread reach of the movement. It’s as messed up as you think it is. From women not using a tampon for decades because they’re knocked up, to the harsh discipline, and vasectomy and tubal tie reversal ministries, it’s f-ed up.
We also read stories from former quiverfull women who are, thankfully, out now.
Our sources: La Wikipedia and article Bonnie read from.
Terrible abusive video from Debi and Micheal Pearl (starts at the 1:25 mark).
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Danny McBride, Adam Devine, Edi Patterson, John Goodman, and a guy playing a keytar. The Righteous Gemstones is heaven.
It’s over-the-top and ridiculous and exaggerated, and a hundred percent accurate.
This week we discuss the HBO show and how familiar Bonnie and Karen are with the Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker-type family that drives two-hundred thousand dollar SUVs, has a shooting range on their compound, and a Christian project named Keefe living with them.
There are celibacy promises! Bible heroes wax museum. Chicken references. Mullets. Pants with pleats. Tee shirts with youth group graphics. Youth group!! Youth group meeting as a cover. I wonder if any of our friends ever did that? (Yes, they did.) “These feats of strength are all to glorify God.”
Adam Devine’s youth minister character is typical of what we see in the south. Is he gay or just trying to be hip? Does he look like Hermy the elf or Jimmy Neutron?
Bonnie talks about how Adam Devine received the late-season add-in blessing from Modern Family like other stars have experienced.
And damn if Edi Patterson’s role as the daughter Judy isn’t painfully accurate. She never gets to do anything in the patriarchal church family.
Watch it with us and tag us with your insights. We love this show.
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Joshua Harris, Marty Sampson, and Mckrae Game. They’ve done some thinking and the church is not happy about it. We say welcome. Y’all ballers.
Joshua Harris renounced Christianity close to the time the author of I Kissed Dating Goodbye announced his separation from his wife. Since then, he looks like he’s living life and staying away from doing much other than concentrating on his kids, work, and loving those he no longer judges.
Marty Sampson was a singer and writer with Hillsong, a blockbuster Christian singing group. His deconversion has been more public due to his Instagram account.
Lastly, there’s the most recent story from McKrae Game, the head of a conversion therapy program who has come out as gay.
No judgement here. We’ve been through what they have. And we look forward to more people simply asking the questions that are down deep.
A full episode of kooky letters. We’ve got ones from Fredzo, Racheal, David, and Bethany. Plus, a surprise one up top.
When you’re deep into the church, or being homeschooled, you learn a lot of things too important for your basic historians. They’re saved for God’s chosen people to know. Like…who really shot JFK or why slavery was fantastic.
For the musicians out there, we hear from a bloody singer as well as Queen.
These episodes are our favorites. Please send us your letters!
Once you build a 73 million dollar sanctuary, what could go wrong? Willow Creek church in Chicago was the first mainstream mega-church.From keytars and dry ice machines in the 80s to megatrons and coffee shops now, Willow Creek has been rocked by a…wait for it…sex scandal.
Bill Hybels founded the church in 1975. The church has 7 locations and averages 24,000 attendees. Yes, we get most of this from Wikipedia. So do people like to go to large churches to hide and blend in?
In 2018 the whole leadership resigned because they mishandles allegations against Hybels for sexual misconduct. Hybels was big in with James Dobson and they were anti-porn. So Hybels said it was his job to “research” porn by watching it WITH his hand-picked secretary while he wore only a robe. More things happened through the years, but…gross.
Karen and Bonnie then reminisce about their big church and it’s biggest time of the year–The Singing Christmas tree. Weeks upon weeks of strict rehearsals, a huge scaffolded tree you stood in, and most recently livestock that comes in for authenticity and then falls on the ticket-holders.
Send in your funny, true stories for us to read on the podcast. Also, please subscribe, rate, and review.
Sign up for your free Audible Trial HERE for a free 30 days and free book. Our recommendations for the week are Educated by Tara Westover and A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle.
Son of Sam, David Berkowitz, is now the self-proclaimed Son of Hope.
Karen tries to get David to come to the studio, but he’s too shy. And imprisoned. We should have gotten the actor who portrays him on Mindhunter on Netflix. He’s amazing!
Bonnie joins the rank of 22 year-old guys who live on Reddit by putting a Bible in the Historical Fiction category at a Barnes and Noble. And Karen admits to saving up her money one year to buy her husband a Zune for allll his music. Holds 50 songs!
We were thrilled to receive a letter from a listener saying they had been to the Young Life camp that used to be the Rajneesh compound in Oregon. Thanks for the letter. We love these insights.
Bonnie describes the 70s. Disco. Bell bottoms. Leisure suits. Not a lot of bras. Lots of rainbows on things before the gays appropriated them.
Karen gives the run-down of David Berkowitz’s crimes. He randomly shot people, mostly couples while they were in their car. It scared New York and the nation.
When Berkowitz was a kid, his birthmother gave him up for adoption. He was adopted and was a bad, bad kid. When he was caught after all the killings, people were upset at his last name and Jewish people were happy to find out he was adopted but then it was revealed his birthmother was also Jewish. Then Karen tells an old reverse racist Jewish joke.
Berkowitz might or might not have been involved in the occult. It depends if you ask, Bonnie or Karen. Karen goes by the story that he’d been getting into the idea of demons from the Kentucky church he got initially saved in. Then he parlayed this into a story once he was arrested.
Berkowitz got a lot of attention when he converted in the clink and was interviewed by Larry King and anyone else who wanted to nab a juicy subject but got Berkowitz’s testimony instead. David even wrote a book! And you can find it somewhere online. He isn’t supposed to make money off it, but it will definitely help build his ministry.
Berkowitz also has an organization. Ok, he doesn’t, but his “friends” have made on for him. You can read his journals and see all the people who visit him. He has more of a reach from prison than most people on the outside.
If you were in prison, why wouldn’t you want to become a Christian? You get forgiveness, a community, meaning, something to do away from other prisoners. Bonnie and Karen discuss how disproportionate Christian chaplains are to other religions in prison. Plus, Bonnie tells Prison Jesus, which is an actual psychological disorder.
We’ll give it to Berkowitz, although we do feel he sincerely believes, he has carved out a pretty successful life since slaughtering 6 people.
Letters and letters!
Thanks for writing in. You can send us yours via our website www.deconversiontherapypodcast.com.
Our first one is from Heather, a kick-ass deconvert who’s been through it. She’s still healing from losing sword drills. Then she tells us about the universal kids’ musical/dancing controversies we all lived through growing up.
We read a letter from a Christian college “bad boy,” as well as hear about a JW vs Mormon turf war.
Come laugh at yourselves with us.
As always, we really would love your ratings and reviews, as that helps us get seen by other listeners. iTunes is the best place to do one, even if you listen on another pod place thingy.
The audio books we talk about this week are The Complete Uncensored History of Saturday Night Live and Stay Sexy and Don’t Get Murdered. Use our code at www.audibletrial.com/deconversion to get a 30-day free trial plus one book.