They Name is Lettersode

We love letters. We love them. And reviews. We’re selfish and run on interaction.

Thanks for being vulnerable and making us laugh at and with you. Keep them coming!

This week we hear about Catholic smudge marks and Pastor Gary.

We’re also trying to get transcriptions going. Yes, they WILL improve.

Karen and Bonnie


It’s Deconversion Therapy. Is it welcome time? Oh, sorry.

Deconversion therapy. The letter sewed where you write us letters about all the terrible, embarrassing things that happened to you in the church. And we read them and laugh at you with you for you. All of this for you, because it was painful for you. We don’t care. Um, so I’m the parent. Yep. And this is Bonnie and make sure to please subscribe and rate, and I’d really love some new reviews.

Even if our old reviewers get on someone else’s phone. I just like seeing things written about us. Um, it helps, you know, Uh, boost boost star morale, because right now we are hibernating and I haven’t talked to anyone and usually. When I walk around, it’s just people following me, telling me you’re beautiful.

You’re gorgeous. And now I don’t get that anymore. Can I please tell you, uh, similar to what you just joked about? That happened to me once with a friend who I was with, not me. I was there. You weren’t. I think I was okay. It was in Los Angeles. I was on an escalator with my roommate who was a model. And we were on the down,

we were on the down escalator and some guy was going on the up escalator and he sees her and just says, you’re beautiful. And I was like, wow, that’s just the most fun thing to be standing next to too.

I just go for twins. Oh, wow. Um, let’s see. Also find us on Instagram. Our Instagram followers are great, and if you post memes, I will steal them. People send them to me and the DMS or on our Facebook group, which is really fun. Bonnie’s been in there a lot. Uh, I will pop in and steal the memes. So that’s it send in your funny stories and how about you start with one Bonnie?

All right. This is one that I think is really interesting. At least I I’ve skimmed these, but not read them. So, but I really enjoy the fact that, um, The person after it says, here’s my story says, please don’t reveal any names, read all the names, all of them. I know, spell them for clarity. I was at a school attached to a church that sounds just like us.

And then it says, which we later found out was a cult. And what grade do you find that out in. Um, you get your period. You’ve realized, Oh, this is a cult I’ve grown up. Um, one day the principal of my school, who was also the pastor’s wife called a meeting of all students to the sanctuary. We then proceeded to have a two hour intervention, which she claimed was for purifying the school from evil.

During this time, every single student, except for me and my friend, uh, went to the podium and repented before everyone for their sins. I remember this one, tiny seventh grader went up and started sobbing because he didn’t give his all in his.

That’s so sweet and said, can you imagine how many times I would be up there? I couldn’t even find my homework. I would say did SAS. Oh my God. But with you and your homework, I remember the meanest teacher, we had implemented some kind of system with you where you had to write it down in a book. Yes. Yes. I know.

Yeah. Just kind. Everything I owned was in lost and found. I was the only kid doing my work at an angle because my desk wouldn’t shut from all my crap. And then.

My teacher had to like invent a little pad of paper where she’d write down the assignments and initial it, because between school and home, I just walked through some kind of supernatural that sucked everything out of my brain and I’d show up and people would like, know what they’re doing? And I’m like, what?

What has to happen again? Three found that I had add, but anyway, let’s go back. I remember with you, with you and the assignment book, uh, others of us were like, well, we wanted assign that look too. I’m sure the teacher was like fine. I’ll initial. Okay. All of your crap here, right? But that was good. And I know that you’re going to be jealous now, but now I am a themed and I always have been about writing things down.

Oh, me too now. Yeah. But yeah, I really took it to heart. And when I see people not writing things down, I’m like, how do you edit? You get shit done. And what are you just remember everything and check things off and feel victorious even more important. Yeah. Okay. Back to the letter. Sorry, wait. But back to lost and found thing.

When I was in acting school, I had this awesome blue sweatshirt and there was an afternoon class and a morning class. And I was in the morning and I lost my sweatshirt and I couldn’t believe it. And I was hanging around one day after the afternoon. People started and here comes this guy wearing my sweatshirt and I said, Where’d you find that sweatshirt, you goes, I didn’t find it.

It’s mine. And I’m like, no, I’m pretty sure that’s mine. Cause it has the toothpaste stain right on the boots that I had gotten. It’s so easy. Reluctantly takes it off and hands it back to me. And that person was. Short, ah, nevermind. No, it wasn’t anybody who we know today by their name. Okay. So this letter is almost over, I’m sorry, no name.

It says other students apologize for not being kind to their mothers or doing harmless pranks. Pranks are never harmless by the way. That’s right. Um, they’re always awesome though. Um, it was one of the strangest moments in my life. I bet. So, yeah, but you know what else this person is talking about? Like the whole going up to the podium.

I am reading a book right now and I won’t tell you whose book it is because we’re going to talk about it on a subsequent podcast, but he talks about being saved multiple times. Yeah. Other people have been talking about that. And I, I thought it just happened. No, you rededicate your life. Yeah. But they talk about it being saved because he specifically says I was worried that it didn’t taste, right.

Yeah. Yeah. I get that. Um, then baptize multiple times too. That is a waste of water. Um, But also like this letter, you know, the whole idea idea of really, especially when you’re young, trying to find every little sin, because you’re sure. You know that it’s in there. So you’re like digging and finding things that aren’t even bad.

They’re just, you know, the whole, like not respecting my mother, like, you know, what if your mother is an asshole or a bitch or, you know, and it’s like, well, I’ve really got to do it. Gotta dig deep. And I can tell you who from our school’s mother was. Oh, Yeah, leave that to everybody’s imagination for all the zinger people.

He knows our listeners, they know who we are. Um, but there was, there was tremendous use of the guilt in our Baptist day school. Yeah. I told you, I told you about them. One that sticks out with me when a frog in a jar of formaldehyde was broken. And the whole place, our sixth grade classroom stunk and to inhale, it hurt your throat.

And I remember when we got to leave, I said, Oh my gosh, I’m so glad to get out of here. Cause my throat hurts so bad. And then the next day the teachers, uh, prepared a fake conversation to have in front of me. Saying? Well, there was one student yesterday who commented on how the room didn’t smell good, which was very unkind considering that some of us have to stay here all day.

And so it worked on me. That’s just, and that’s such a nothing thing. Yeah. But look what stuck with these centers. Sixth grade. I know. Well, Frog. I remembered the one kid. He was younger than us. He was a real glue eater and he was crazy. So we had the little, there’s like a carport. Opening at our, our day school.

And so the parents would drive up and, you know, the kid would jump in the car and we had patrols, which I was one. I want everyone to know I had patrols and I would do patrol duty. And that just says, Hey car, come up. Hey, kids stop and narrows this wild little kid. And he would always say, can I go now?

Like, Oh yeah, me sarcastically, if he could walk, but he got given the punishment. He obviously at ADHD, given the punishment to write, I will not, you know, do this or that. And they’re like, you need to run the chalkboard, like Bart Simpson on paper. Um, so he wrote one page and then photocopied. Badly five other pages that were like crooked and you know, old and all that.

And he brought them in. I’m like, ah, our school wasn’t Gary. That was not the point of the exercise. And today. He runs Apple. Okay. Um, all right, Tim Apple. All right. The Apple store, no name from blank. Blank, state blank, blank. That’s right. We’ll just put your name on Instagram. Okay. This one is from Chris, AKA marshy now, and hi, Chris.

I know who you are. Hey lady, I’m getting a kick out of catching up on podcasts during this Covance stuff. So let me just say thanks for providing some laughs. I do have a Catholic story to share with you with some caveats, namely. I’m not Catholic. So it’s a reporter’s diary. It’s it’s a I’ll tailing. Um, first let me say, I grew up super Fundy.

I think we look like Mennonites, but with the exciting soul crushing doctrine of Westland Methodism, as in, wait, what did Mennonites look like? Long dresses and long hair and the little delicate, um, yarmulke thing with the string saying, no, that can’t be right. We’re going to get in trouble. Well, it’s not a yamaka.

It’s a little Barnetti thing. Delicate. It’s like very little crochet. They can be crocheted. I think that’s okay. Oh, Oh. Oh. Like the thing that maybe covers your ears, even now I’m thinking of a snowcap yeah. Yeah. I think, um, witness, so almost Amish, but shops at hobby lobby. Okay. Um, so they opened, by the way, I don’t know.

They essential. Yeah, they’re essential. Where else are you going to get wooden letters? Okay. Think we look like Mennonites, but with the exciting soul crushing doctrine of West land Methodism, as in Christian perfection slash two works of grace. I’ll look that one up slash salvation plus sanctification with a touch of charismatic as in getting the spirit, but not speaking in tongues because that’s obviously demon possession.

Okay. Thanks. Bye. And a complete horror of the outside world. We had our own school, college camp, you name it. And we did not interact with folks outside our church except for unsaved family. So at least they were loving to their family. No, they did not say that. They said no, no, no. They said they interacted with them.

They didn’t shun their unsaved family at least. True. So that’s nice, but the interaction, we don’t have the details on. Um, all right. I see a fair teacher to did it. Which is how I wound up not ever meeting a Heden Catholic until I was about 23 years old. Today, this, this life event wouldn’t be a big deal.

I would laugh it off and apologize. But at 23 years old, the submissive easily intimidated girl, it was a life altering event. Now you imagine that and like, how do you identify a Catholic. Well, eyeliner

now, spaghetti straps. They all have perfect. Just forgive them. I know. I just remember seeing all the Catholic girls that, you know, we’d run into at the grocery store and I’d noticed, say I’d like the black coal eyeliner. Really? Yeah. They probably put it on after school, but nonetheless, the girls in junior high school used to take a lighter to their eyeliner and set it on fire to get it all melty so they could get a really good glop.

That’s what the term smokey I came from. No,

it’s great. Okay. Now long ago in the olden days, Protestants acknowledged lint. That should not be the same as what’s in your belly button, but we did not actually take part in denying ourselves for 40 days, mostly because we were so spiritual. We denied ourselves 365 days all the time. Have you ever done lint?

I think it’s a great idea. Yeah. Every time you reach for a peanut or something that you deny yourself, it’s a reminder of why you’re doing it. I would just be like this year. I’m not eating peanut for the good example.

This year, I’m giving up. I’m sending my dog away for 40 days. Um, my God, that’d be sad. Give up your oat milk and it’s not oatmeal milk, but thanks a lot. Yeah. It’s not pods people. They’re great. They froth really well. Alright. Back to the letter. However, I have noticed recently that more Protestant Protestants seem to be getting into the lint Ash.

Wednesday thing. Question Mark. Yes. Anyway, I moved away to another state right out of Bible college and ran into my first. Oops and ran into my very first Catholic Mike was an engineer on a job site I worked at and we all had to wear hats and steel toed boots, et cetera, with lots of dust around. So it wasn’t uncommon for guys to get kind of dirty.

Oh, no. Oh no. The smear of dirt on his head. And we were having a budget meeting. I was so nervous for him. I kept tilting my head, trying to catch his attention, gesturing to my story. Okay. To save this poor man, , I’m giving a big presentation with a giant spear of mud on its face.

Finally, one of the admins pulled me aside and asked if I was okay, because it looked like I was fighting off a bee or something and explain that. No, in fact, Mike was the one looking stupid and I was trying to save him. She cracked up and told me he was Catholic and today was Ashwin stay. He in fact was being spiritual and deep.

Thinking about his mortality. I was completely stunned and shocked that one, I hadn’t met a cath like any didn’t seem to be evil

too. I was too dumb to put together the Ash Wednesday ashes on the face, despite years of ease. A C E curriculum and four years of Bible college, including two semesters of college and worth and world religion. Oh my God. Just like us. I mean, we had Ash Wednesday for sure. It was on every calendar and we had world religion and Colts.

Not that we ever studied anything. We just listened to the teacher talk. Right. That would, this is so great because the same thing happened to me when I worked at Macy’s when I was 21, like more than one person came in with that on their forehead. And I was so flipped out, like what’s happening? Why are they all doing it?

Yeah. It more than one. Yeah, it does look cultish. Yeah, and I, I had met Catholics I’m sure, but maybe I hadn’t been exposed to them on Ash Wednesday. Oh, my gosh. It was, it was, uh, it was one of them, the funniest things to realize what was going on, but not like hers. Stupid. Mike, she put in parentheses.

Catholicism is a call FYI, not a world religion. So the admin did, in fact, dismiss me from the meeting with a quote, bless your heart. This was North Carolina. So you know what that means? And I hidden in the bathroom for the rest of the day. I worked out of another office for about two weeks because I just couldn’t be around him without dying inside.

I’ve moved all over the Southeast and my adult life. And let me just say, after living in Louisiana, for sure. Four years. I have met many more Catholics and I’ve learned to love fish on Fridays and fat, Tuesday and drinking. So Catholics have brought a lot to my life, including etiquette on Ash Wednesday.

Thanks for that podcasts ladies. Oh my gosh. That’s awesome. It is so, so we, um, hung around. Uh, when we were at a different town in Tennessee, the first friends we made were Catholics. So they introduced us to a bunch of Catholics. And then the next thing you know, we’re going to like all the events, cause they have a chili cook off and a wine tasting and like people just drink and drink and it’s so fun, but we knew that it was bad when like my youngest daughter was still.

Sitting on my lap, still in diapers. And we’d hang out with our Catholic friends and there’d be beer bottles on the table. And she grasped it up on my lap with her chubby legs and tried to balance and was wobbly and grabbed a beer bottle. Got the bottom of the stabilizer. Yeah, got the bottom of her shirt and pulled it up to cover the cap of the beer bottle.

Cause she’d seen how we busted the cast and many times I’m like, Oh, she might not be learning the right things from me. Um, yeah, I learned the Catholics, but speaking of limp, remember that one, lint that the Pope quit. I’m like quit. What is job? Yes. The one before this one was just like, eh, John. Oh, well, that’s a lamp for you.

Well, there’s a friend of mine who was with, uh, some of the members of her family and it was Christmas Eve. And just true to what you were saying. They had been drinking. And it was not, uh, you know, not unusual for them to go to midnight mass on Christmas Eve. So they went where they thought they were going to meet up with their dad to go to mass.

And they walked in and they were giggling and everything. And the other people weren’t quite as jovial and they had accidentally gone into an AA meeting. Yeah. Um, they turned around. They left, but on, on major holidays like that, they have like, um, AA meetings around the clock in certain places. And so yeah, they call it like meeting Palooza or something like that.

So if anybody’s having a problem at any time of day, they have somewhere to go. That’s a good idea. It’s not church. No. And it reminds me of the girls Scouts setting up, you know, their table outside the, um, the cannabis shops. You just have it available. There’s some marketing, Christian marketing, people that tell you about that.

Oh, we have, we have one more. Okay. Uh huh. Amy says it’s okay to her to use her name. I wish she said, Amy said it’s not okay to use. So she says high up, which by the way, and now I’m just interrupting the letter after the first one. Yeah. We have found fault already there. I went over to England and that’s how a lot of people would greet you with HYA.

What. Yeah, no. Yes. Hi. Yeah. Anyhow, she says, hi, a 28 year old center living in New York city here. My story, you can just say you’re living in New York. We would understand the rest. Oh, my story is about the pastor at the super conservative evangelical Presbyterian church. I went to growing up. My main beef with him happened during my senior year of Christian high school.

When I was applying to join the national honor society, you were required to get a recommendation from your pastor in order to be accepted me being a 17 year old kid, putting off, getting his letter of recommendation till the very last minute. Apparently he was so upset that it had to be a rush job.

Really, all he had to do is write one damn paragraph for me that he actually wrote, Oh my God, that he didn’t think I qualified to be accepted. Guess what? I didn’t get accepted. I never did get into the national honor society. Thanks a lot, pastor Gary, you jerk. I know. I could go down the long list of how much church has ruined the intellectual and career.

Potential of so many people. Okay. But yeah, but you know what? I laugh and stead letters. Yeah. Yeah. But, but listen to what we’re talking about. Our sixth grade teacher, this guy, pastor Gary, they all take it on themselves. Like these children shouldn’t be acting like children. They should be accommodating me.

It’s just. Shitty shitty grownups. Anyway, um, my family left the church a few years later because the elders refused. I used to change with the times and insisted on only singing Gerges from the hymnal, no youth program and no intention of improving that. Pastor Gary actually sent an angry letter to my sister, even my parents insulting her and saying how disappointed he was, that she left the church.

Wow, pastor Gary. And I hope that’s, I don’t know if I hope it’s his real name or not. Cause I just want to tell pastor Gary to go. Yeah, something that’s right. This is real name or Twitter handle. Thank you. Hey, pastor Gary, sit on it and spin. Hmm that’s uh, well, yeah, he might get that one. Well, my family was.

Still attending that church. There was a whole debacle where he pissed all the old people off because he said life sucks in one of his sermons, pastor Gary, um, everyone freaked out about it and he had the issue, Paul, but yeah. Yeah. I love that this letter is kind of more like bashing pastor Gary, and I’m fine with that.

Um, Everyone else in the family are still devout Christians. And occasionally I hear that they quote, worry about my face. Um, I’m happily long gone from that life. Even though back in the day, I did lift my hands in worship and sobbed at church retreats for no reason other than everyone else was doing it.

How could you expect me to stay in it after going to college for musical theater at a secular school? Right. It was a four year long, big gay romp, and it was glorious. I was so thrilled to find your podcast. It comforts me to know I’m not alone. Let us pray. Awesome. And I hate pastor Gary. I know, but that’s a substitute for all of the people who were grown ups, who were shitting on us as children.

Exactly. And it happens so much in the church. It’s unbelievable. Yeah. And guess what else? I was the most compliant kid you’d ever hope to have and they still shat upon me. Yep. Same here. Yeah. Yeah. And it was like, yeah. Any little thing you do, that’s it? Yeah. Anything. Yep. And then meanwhile, they’re all off bang in each other and smoking.

So send us more of your pastor, Gary shit, head teacher story. Go ahead. Maybe we all have an episode on just. Instead of these ship piles that are usually big name people, just some pastors who are real assholes. Thank you guys as usual for listening and do the whole rate and subscribe thing that Karen explains is important.

And we will be looking at the people who are asking. Looking to get into the Facebook group because that’s a fun group with nice conversation and a welcoming bye. And that’s Bonnie telling me to get in there and do my part of the task. No, it’s not. I’m the letter in her, but that was my way of saying if we haven’t let you in it.

Just because, um, we know like you that’s right. Alright. Well, thanks and have a great week and VV, not a shift pile.

THESE Shitpiles

How do we keep up with the hellishness of the last week? We push our other recorded episodes down the pike and record fresh because there’s JUST. SO. MUCH.

Don’t forget to send your funny, true stories to us OR racist crap you learned in church.

Copy of Copy of Copy of THESE Shitpiles Episode is up!Copy of Copy of Copy of THESE Shitpiles Episode is up! (1)

Jews for Jesus and “Unorthodox”

Jews for Jesus. Bonnie and Karen spat over their right to exist.

As someone of 1% Jewish DNA, Karen explains the Jewish faith, especially Hasidic Jews for which she watched many YouTube videos. They both loved the Netflix series Unorthodox, and now know A. Lot.

Don’t forget to write us your true, funny stories about growing up in church or the synagogue.

Q and A: The Good Years

We sent out a call for listeners to ask Bonnie and Karen questions. On this episode, Bonnie goes into her deconversion, plus they both discuss how and when they “came out” to people about their beliefs, as well as if religion is needed in the world.

Bethel Church’s Biggest Hits

We get weekly requests to cover Bethel Church in Redding, CA. You probably know it by the story months ago of a toddler who died and the church believed she would be resurrected although days kept passing. Or perhaps it was from their outspokenness about conversion therapy for gays.

Karen tells about a woman who left their School of Supernatural Ministry, plus all the disasters that have happened with the students and church taking over the town of Redding.

Bonnie ends it with the best info on the church out there…Trip Advisor reviews.

Stay well and inside, everyone!

Check out our new birth control sleeve at

Coronavirus and the Religious Whackery


We must join the professionals like us and discuss the COVID-19. Of course, our profession is religious whack-a-doodles, so that’s what we’re gonna do. Here’s some of the crap religious leaders are hawking. 

Seems it’s not a good time for Bonnie to have stopped drinking! She has no tennis to watch, either!

If you’re self-quarantining, what else do you have to do than to listen to useless podcasts.

We cover Jim Bakker and the FDA coming after him, the New Zealand pastor who preaches tithing Christians will be okay, Bethel Church, and our own former pastor.

Stay safe everyone! We’ll see you on the other side.

*FYI–We are suspending our Patreon support campaign until this whole pandemic is resolved and people are back on their feet.

Lettersode 9


Bonnie and Karen are punchy this week. And let us add, we recorded this BEFORE we were derided about how to pronounce “chakras,” so chove it.

In this Lettersode, Amanda moves from Japan to land in Louisiana where she went to a Vacation Bible School that’s theme that summer was…Japan.

Madison was taught dinosaurs didn’t exist. She grew her hair long, was pure and sweet and sheltered. She tells about being traumatized when going to another church’s Bible camp.

Then Jen comes in at the end with a crazy Ouija board story that leave Karen and Bonnie wondering about the unexplained.

Send you funny letter to us at You can also support us at 

You’re Going to Carmen

We’re back! And who better to kick off the year than with the slickest performer of all–Carmen?

Rock, Jazz, Funk, or starring in his own films, he does it all. Even medical anesthesia is no match for him!


We’ve missed you. Or was that just another one of Bonnie’s lies? She loved to start rumors in college.

If you grew up in the 80s and 90s, you went to one of Carmen’s free concerts. He filled them up. Karen was even a counselor.

In this episode, we describe the man, the legend. Or we read how he describes himself. Add in some videos about how he’s A2J–Addicted to Jesus, and loves to box, and we start seeing how he has the swag to not only refuse a job with the mafia, but names the people he refused. download

Don’t forget to print up one of these non-working clock faces and bring to his concert.

We just don’t get this guy.

Please SUBSCRIBE, Rate, and Review. Plus, support us on Patreon for exclusive content.



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Benny Hinn and Toe Tattoos

We’re back with our last retro replay.

There’s cheeto and toe tattoos, then on with the show.

If you like the show, you can support us at

Karen and Bonnie go through the lives and miracle healing powers of Kathrine Kuhlman and Benny Hill, no, Hinn. Are people really getting cured of cancer and broken backs and whatnot and various sundries? Why are all the people falling backwards when they get healed? And how in the world are these wheeler healers getting their own television shows when we don’t have one?

Karen starts out with one of the best-known faith healers, Katherine Kuhlman. You might have never heard of her, but she birthed a whole litter of these guys. She was elegant and magnetic and also talked in a creepy voice.

She had her share of scandals, but we must say, being a divorced woman evangelist in the 60s with your own show isn’t bad.

Bonnie gets in to someone who followed Kuhlman, idolized her, studied her–Benny Hinn. You’ve seen him on television. He’s the one people roll their eyes at when he makes a swath of people fall out on stage.

Hinn got caught with televangelist Paula White a few years ago while in Italy. They

denied it. Then they didn’t. Then they downplayed it. We don’t care. At least the Kardashians admit their vice.

Hinn’s nephew, Costi Hinn, has come out with a book. It’s mainly for Christians, but it says all the things most people know. This is about money and power.

Mentioned on podcast: Josiah Hesse’s Vice article about Jim Bakker.

Do you have 3 minutes? Please rate us and even review us on iTunes. It’s how we get in front of more people. Thanks.

Dry Karen and The Graceful Atheist

We’re playing The Graceful Atheist podcast on the show today. A few months ago, David interviewed Karen. His podcast questions are smart and thought-provoking. We hope you enjoy it!

You can find some great interviews at

You can support the show at

Thank you!


Kanye and Bonnie Don’t Stop

We’ve launched our Patreon so listeners can support this new year of our podcast. Go to to see our levels of support. The price of a Pumpkin Spice Latte a month would help so much, and we offer the same amount of sugar and fluff.

This week we start out with some slut-shaming from the elderly and a hint for a new episode we’re working on. Then we reprise our Kanye episode which includes our medical expertise. Enjoy!

Here’s Bonnie’s slut-shame thing:

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Kanye West and His Sunday Service Spiral


Karen and Bonnie discuss Kanye West’s Sunday Services going on around the country.

Find us on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook Page And please SUBSCRIBE. Thank you.

We Have a SHOP. Check it out and help support our podcast.

Karen and Bonnie begin by trying to figure out what a Wonderwall is, reminisce about Saturday Night Live’s Shweddy Balls skit, and discuss writings on bathroom walls before getting down to professionally analyzing Kanye West.

Kanye’s new church services are in Calabasas, CA to Detroit to wherever he flies his choir to next. It’s a music-only service, which kills Bonnie. And he doesn’t even do Golddigger! It’s all leading up to his new album release: Jesus is King.

They discuss Kanye’s bi-polar, liposuction, and criticism. Plus, something we didn’t know is the Kardashian’s previous involvement in another California church.

All we can say is #FreeKanye, because we feel like we’re watching a car wreck in slo mo.

Happy New Year! Opening the Vault

We’re taking some time to improve the show and replaying some of our favorite episodes.

Please SPONSOR us on Patreon. Thank you!

We RIFF on some memories of urine and being snipers before we let you loose on an episode we released on Christmas Eve of 2018.

Bonnie and Karen read their first submitted story by a listener! The subject is how Christianity shames females into thinking all sexual “sins” are their fault, even when they didn’t participate!

They discuss how rapey ducks can be and how it’s always the female duck who is the “stumbling block” to the “thought life” of said dicks, we mean ducks.

Karen recounts having to forgive a fellow missionary when he confesses he thought about her while masturbating, and Bonnie asks the question we all want to know: Was Fonzie having sex with all those girls he brought to his apartment above the Cunningham’s garage on Happy Days?


Pastafarianism, The Flying Spaghetti Monster

Scroll down for more ways to listen. You can also tell Alexa, “Play the podcast Deconversion Therapy.” We’ve paid her off.

Pastafarianism, The Flying Spaghetti Monster
Pastafarian leads council in prayer.

We carb-load up on Pastafarianism, a religion Karen is signing up for but Bonnie can’t handle the puns.

Karen had seen images with people wearing colanders on their heads, even some paintings reimagined with God being replaced by the Flying Spaghetti Monster, but she never knew much about the whole thing. Their God, Wikipedia, helps enlighten them on what is a great social statement on the division of church and state.

Pastafarianism, The Flying Spaghetti Monster
Pastafarianism, The Flying Spaghetti Monster Driver License

Bonnie gives a recipe for a “chair roll,” and Karen vows to become a ministeroni.

Here’s their WEBSITE.




Thanksgiving Survival Guide

Bonnie and Karen shepherd you through the religious obstacles of Thanksgiving dinner. We throw in a history lesson, sprinkle it with some rat urine, and then send you into the lion’s den. Good luck, Champ.

Noah’s Ark Nemesis: Logic

How did this story of violent death and floating babies turn into the cutest story in the Bible, with cute toys being given to children at Christmas?

Bonne and Karen tackle the issues that float to the top with this fantastical story they both thought was real growing up.

Pew News: Kanye, Paula White, John Crist

Kanye’s back with more of his Christian humility and putting others first. We’ve got Paula White receiving an official White House position. And it all wraps up with the bombshell accusations about sexual misconduct of comedian John Crist. Never a week off around here.

We get Kanye out of the way by talking about how upset he is that he can’t do math for Forbes.

Paula, Paula, Paula. Paula White is in the news again because Trump gave her an official posting. NowThis made a video of her clips. America, you in trouble girl.


John Crist is a snarky Christian comedian who actually has some good bits, moslty because he wasn’t afraid of poking fun at Christian stereotypes. This week, a Christian news outlet broke the news of his sexual misconduct, leading to him canceling his tour and Netflix canceling his special.

Thanks for all the letters recently. We love reading them.


Lettersode 5: Everything’s Downright Inappropriate

Have you NOT subscribed? Really? Tapping that button is just too much of a strain on the digits? Come on, help a poddy mouth out.

This month’s Lettersode went sidewayyyyys. It wasn’t the letter writers’ fault. We recorded in the morning and were much more chipper, and sometimes things in our path get destroyed.

Our letters from Bethany, Fred, and Brad were awesome. We have curse words, Gary Smalley, and more Multi-level marketing fun.

If you’ve braved coming to see show notes, your reward is the picture of the nipple foot Bonnie sent me.

Please support the podcast by visiting (that means buying) our SHOP. Plus, sign up fro Audible using our code . It’s the holidays. Treat your self to more hours of entertainment.

Happy JesusWeen

No, we did not make that word up. But sadly, someone else did.

This week Karen and Bonnie share their memories of Halloweens past, when the church hadn’t upped the ante on hijacking it for Fall Festivals and Hallelujah Nights. Or JesusWeens, a concept that didn’t make it far out of the gate, but far enough for it to still be out there.

Here’s Karen and Bonnie as Miss America (your own face isn’t good enough, Karen), and a Gypsy.

Karen as “Miss Ameriker”
Bonnie as “Gypsy”
Female bust on table as “Stumbling Block”
Karen as Pinky Tuscadero headed to Mass Bonnie as tipsy mother of the bride

Here’s another of us as Pinky Tuscadero, the slutty girlfriend of Fonzie, and a tipsy Hawaiian-themed wedding mother-of-the-Bride.

There are two great letters from listeners who had to celebrate Halloween at church, hints on how to survive waterboarding, and these tacky Christian-themed Halloween items.

And here’s that scary-ass haunted tour we mention where you have to sign off on the possibility of pulling out your own teeth.

We’d love to hear any stories of this Halloween, past ones, or see some costumes. The laughing is a two-way street.

Don’t forget we have a SHOP. We’d love you to,…shop there.

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And all the others.

Leaving Westboro Baptist

Scroll to the bottom for more places to listen.

Bonnie and Karen were ready to skewer everything and everyone connected to hateful Westboro Baptist, with their God Hates Fags picket lines. But then they read Unfollow by Megan Phelps-Roper who left the church (her entire family) and has now come out with the book.

Despicable? Yes. Hurtful? Of course. But with hearing and reading from the granddaughter of the founder of the church, we understand the psychology more.

We also highlight the Equality House, a home purchased across the street form Westboro Baptist that has become an LBGT museum and is painted like a huge rainbow flag.

Once again, we learned a lot from this episode. It hurts our egos to keep learning like this.

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MLMs: Moms Losing Money

It’s just a little fun on the side. Sell some oils or woven baskets, make some pocket money. Of course, that’s not how it ends up at all. Multi-Level marketing companies are mainly Christian/Mormon run–Mary Kay, DoTerra Oils, Pampered Chef, Advocare, and many more. The secret hidden in plain sight is that 75% of people (ok, women) who join MLMs don’t make money. And about 50% LOSE money. 

Bonnie and Karen discuss which MLMs are religious-based, why, and what the hell is going on. 

They try to keep their usual light manner, but it gets hard when so many mothers are getting shafted by something that is supposed to empower them.

Here’s some of the podcasts we’ve found that are Christian/Mormon run:

31 Gifts

LaBella Baskets and Gifts

Mary Kay 0.2% (two tenths of one percent) are in Cadillacs.

Just Jewelry 

F.A.I.T.H. Gifts

Initial Outfitters

Damsel in Defense

First Fitness Nutrition

Mary and Martha

Daisy Blue Naturals

Close to my Heart

Art and Soul


CB Jewelry

Compelling Creations

Premier Designs

Red Rock Traditions

Crowned Free

Grace and Heart


DoTerra–From Young Living 

Pampered Chef


Juice Plus

Eclipse Candle Company


Taste of Gourmet

A big thanks to the podcast The Dream by Jane Marie for covering this topic in depth.

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The Dream Podcast

Patheos Article

Lettersode 4: Witchcraft, Lemonade, Cannabis, and Cosplay

Listener letter time. Weird, quirky, and hilarious. Bonnie and Karen read from their virtual stack. If you’ve been holding onto a humorous story to do with religion or church, send it in HERE. 

You know how preachers think everything is witchcraft these days, including eye-rolling. Protect yourself by dousing yourself in Axe body spray.

Then we hear a story about preacher’s kids and PGs, preacher’s grandkids. Does the line of celebrity ever end?

There’s a story on how to pick out a homeschooler from a mile away, plus potential jobs for when they graduate.

We finish up with a letter about a bass-playing Jesus.

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Kanye West and His Sunday Service Spiral

Karen and Bonnie discuss Kanye West’s Sunday Services going on around the country.

Kanye West at Sunday Service

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Karen and Bonnie begin by trying to figure out what a Wonderwall is, reminisce about Saturday Night Live’s Shweddy Balls skit, and discuss writings on bathroom walls before getting down to professionally analyzing Kanye West.

Kanye’s new church services are in Calabasas, CA to Detroit to wherever he flies his choir to next. It’s a music-only service, which kills Bonnie. And he doesn’t even do Golddigger! It’s all leading up to his new album release: Jesus is King. 

They discuss Kanye’s bi-polar, liposuction, and criticism. Plus, something we didn’t know is the Kardashian’s previous involvement in another California church.

All we can say is #FreeKanye, because we feel like we’re watching a car wreck in slo mo.

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Baby, Baby: Quiver-full (of Crap)

The Duggar Family, who are quiverfull

The Quiverfull Movement is all about letting God give you as many babies as possible to build up the Army of God. Think, the Duggars. 

We want to make 2 things clear at the get-go:

  1. Having a lot of kids is not bad, no matter how much we laugh at it. All big families aren’t quiverfull either. 
  2. Many women have been hurt by this movement, so rest assured we understand the gravity of the hurt that women and kids, especially have experienced with this. Just like our episodes on cults or conmen preachers, we find humor on the edges, and hope a wider audience who enjoys idiotic hosts learn about things they didn’t know was going on around them.

Karen and Bonnie let you in on what they’d name their kids if they had a bundle of them. Then they discuss the origin and widespread reach of the movement. It’s as messed up as you think it is.  From women not using a tampon for decades because they’re knocked up, to the harsh discipline, and vasectomy and tubal tie reversal ministries, it’s f-ed up.

We also read stories from former quiverfull women who are, thankfully, out now.

Our sources: La Wikipedia and article Bonnie read from.

Terrible abusive video from Debi and Micheal Pearl (starts at the 1:25 mark).

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The Righteous Gemstones is Funny as Hell

Danny McBride, Adam Devine, Edi Patterson, John Goodman, and a guy playing a keytar. The Righteous Gemstones is heaven. 

It’s over-the-top and ridiculous and exaggerated, and a hundred percent accurate.

The Righteous Gemstone: Edi Patterson, John Goodman, Adam Devine, Danny McBride

This week we discuss the HBO show and how familiar Bonnie and Karen are with the Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker-type family that drives two-hundred thousand dollar SUVs, has a shooting range on their compound, and a Christian project named Keefe living with them.

Tony Cavalero as Keefe in The Righteous Gemstones

There are celibacy promises! Bible heroes wax museum. Chicken references. Mullets. Pants with pleats. Tee shirts with youth group graphics. Youth group!! Youth group meeting as a cover. I wonder if any of our friends ever did that? (Yes, they did.)  “These feats of strength are all to glorify God.”

Adam Devine’s youth minister character is typical of what we see in the south. Is he gay or just trying to be hip? Does he look like Hermy the elf or Jimmy Neutron?

Bonnie talks about how Adam Devine received the late-season add-in blessing from Modern Family like other stars have experienced.

And damn if Edi Patterson’s role as the daughter Judy isn’t painfully accurate. She never gets to do anything in the patriarchal church family.

Watch it with us and tag us with your insights. We love this show.

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This Week on “As the Church Crumbles”

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Joshua Harris, Marty Sampson, and Mckrae Game. They’ve done some thinking and the church is not happy about it. We say welcome. Y’all ballers.

Joshua Harris renounced Christianity close to the time the author of I Kissed Dating Goodbye announced his separation from his wife. Since then, he looks like he’s living life and staying away from doing much other than concentrating on his kids, work, and loving those he no longer judges.

Joshua Harris

Marty Sampson was a singer and writer with Hillsong, a blockbuster Christian singing group. His deconversion has been more public due to his Instagram account. 

Marty Sampson, Hillsong

Lastly, there’s the most recent story from McKrae Game, the head of a conversion therapy program who has come out as gay.

Mckrae Game

No judgement here. We’ve been through what they have. And we look forward to more people simply asking the questions that are down deep.

Lettersode 3: History According to Sh*tpiles

A full episode of kooky letters. We’ve got ones from Fredzo, Racheal, David, and Bethany. Plus, a surprise one up top.

When you’re deep into the church, or being homeschooled, you learn a lot of things too important for your basic historians. They’re saved for God’s chosen people to know. Like…who really shot JFK or why slavery was fantastic.

For the musicians out there, we hear from a bloody singer as well as Queen.

These episodes are our favorites. Please send us your letters!

Mo’ Members, Mo’ Scandals: Willow Creek

Once you build a 73 million dollar sanctuary, what could go wrong? Willow Creek church in Chicago was the first mainstream mega-church.From keytars and dry ice machines in the 80s to megatrons and coffee shops now, Willow Creek has been rocked by a…wait for it…sex scandal. 

Bill Hybels founded the church in 1975. The church has 7 locations and averages 24,000 attendees. Yes, we get most of this from Wikipedia. So do people like to go to large churches to hide and blend in?

In 2018 the whole leadership resigned because they mishandles allegations against Hybels for sexual misconduct. Hybels was big in with James Dobson and they were anti-porn. So Hybels said it was his job to “research” porn by watching it WITH his hand-picked secretary while he wore only a robe. More things happened through the years, but…gross.

Karen and Bonnie then reminisce about their big church and it’s biggest time of the year–The Singing Christmas tree. Weeks upon weeks of strict rehearsals, a huge scaffolded tree you stood in, and most recently livestock that comes in for authenticity and then falls on the ticket-holders.

Camel falls at Singing Christmas Tree

Send in your funny, true stories for us to read on the podcast. Also, please subscribe, rate, and review.




Sign up for your free Audible Trial HERE for a free 30 days and free book. Our recommendations for the week are Educated by Tara Westover and A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle.

Who’s Gonna be in Heaven? David Berkowitz, the Son of Sam

Son of Sam, David Berkowitz, is now the self-proclaimed Son of Hope.

Karen tries to get David to come to the studio, but he’s too shy. And imprisoned. We should have gotten the actor who portrays him on Mindhunter on Netflix. He’s amazing!

Bonnie joins the rank of 22 year-old guys who live on Reddit by putting a Bible in the Historical Fiction category at a Barnes and Noble. And Karen admits to saving up her money one year to buy her husband a Zune for allll his music. Holds 50 songs!

We were thrilled to receive a letter from a listener saying they had been to the Young Life camp that used to be the Rajneesh compound in Oregon. Thanks for the letter. We love these insights.

Bonnie describes the 70s. Disco. Bell bottoms. Leisure suits. Not a lot of bras. Lots of rainbows on things before the gays appropriated them.

Karen gives the run-down of David Berkowitz’s crimes. He randomly shot people, mostly couples while they were in their car. It scared New York and the nation.

When Berkowitz was a kid, his birthmother gave him up for adoption. He was adopted and was a bad, bad kid. When he was caught after all the killings, people were upset at his last name and Jewish people were happy to find out he was adopted but then it was revealed his birthmother was also Jewish. Then Karen tells an old reverse racist Jewish joke.

Berkowitz might or might not have been involved in the occult. It depends if you ask, Bonnie or Karen. Karen goes by the story that he’d been getting into the idea of demons from the Kentucky church he got initially saved in. Then he parlayed this into a story once he was arrested.

Berkowitz got a lot of attention when he converted in the clink and was interviewed by Larry King and anyone else who wanted to nab a juicy subject but got Berkowitz’s testimony instead. David even wrote a book! And you can find it somewhere online. He isn’t supposed to make money off it, but it will definitely help build his ministry.

David Berkowitz’s book “Son of Hope.”

Berkowitz also has an organization. Ok, he doesn’t, but his “friends” have made on for him. You can read his journals and see all the people who visit him. He has more of a reach from prison than most people on the outside.

David Berkowitz, Son of Sam, and his website for his ministry.
David Berkowitz, Son of Sam, has a better social life than you do.

If you were in prison, why wouldn’t you want to become a Christian? You get forgiveness, a community, meaning, something to do away from other prisoners. Bonnie and Karen discuss how disproportionate Christian chaplains are to other religions in prison. Plus, Bonnie tells Prison Jesus, which is an actual psychological disorder.

We’ll give it to Berkowitz, although we do feel he sincerely believes, he has carved out a pretty successful life since slaughtering 6 people.





Lettersode 2: Divorces, Hair, and Mormons

Letters and letters!

Thanks for writing in. You can send us yours via our website

Our first one is from Heather, a kick-ass deconvert who’s been through it. She’s still healing from losing sword drills. Then she tells us about the universal kids’ musical/dancing controversies we all lived through growing up.

Psalty the Songbook

We read a letter from a Christian college “bad boy,” as well as hear about a JW vs Mormon turf war.

Bad Boy of the Christian College
Mormon Gangsters

Come laugh at yourselves with us.

As always, we really would love your ratings and reviews, as that helps us get seen by other listeners. iTunes is the best place to do one, even if you listen on another pod place thingy.

The audio books we talk about this week are The Complete Uncensored History of Saturday Night Live and Stay Sexy and Don’t Get Murdered. Use our code at to get a 30-day free trial plus one book.

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